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saviour2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
quote:
the world of Quantum mechanics and the world we live in are totally different
*shakes head* Physics is physics. Newton's laws of motion are equally applicable even in the quantum level.
The problem is with Einstein's theory, which does not. It is only applicable in specific situations, which is why it's not a universal theory.
It should shake.My head shook too. Maybe Bose-Einstein theory's elaboration can solve this problem. I am having a feel something big is going to happen in next two decades. Stephen Hawking has a amazing skill to make someone understand difficult things easily. If something great comes out of the underground tunnel test then he is one of the few who can make us understand that. But surely the world of Quantum Mechanics is a lot Difficult than real world. A few people in the whole world can do and understand it's true maths. The four dimensional maths kind of freaks me out let alone quantum maths. The recent tests say that neotreno's velocity is faster than light, after that many papers have been published but none of those papers can solve the expansion [time,space and mass] and also the possibility or usability of it in quantum level. I think we have to wait until the test ends. They are doing this test to find Higgs-boson [god-particle] lets wait and see if they can find it.
quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
Though now I'm really interested in that book. If something can come from nothing, than perpetual motion machines are automatically proven to be NOT a myth. Which is good.
from this line i am assuming you are a mechanical engineer. are you?
Off topic: coming to the Boson , do you know Satyendra Nath Bose is a Bangla speaking man, He was the professor at Dhaka university When he suggested bose-einstein theory. Just saying as there is not many people in bangladesh to talk about.
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Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.26.2012, 01:36 AM.
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 03.25.2012, 01:30 PM |
    
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Orphic Okapi
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Registration Date: 04.08.07
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
*shakes head* Physics is physics. Newton's laws of motion are equally applicable even in the quantum level.
But this isn't true. There's a reason modern physics is divided into two fairly separate categories: classical mechanics and quantum mechanics. Newton's laws of physics are incapable of precisely calculating motion on the quantum level:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_m...its_of_validity
Even on the particle level, bosons and fermions follow different sets of rules and behave differently. Two bosons can occupy the same physical space. Two fermions cannot. According to Newton, no two objects should be able to occupy the same physical space.
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| 03.25.2012, 03:46 PM |
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Calforsale
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.19.10
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What the hell has happened to this thread?!
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| 03.25.2012, 09:24 PM |
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saviour2012
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Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Calforsale
What the hell has happened to this thread?!
nothing wrong man
first as i said being gay or lesbian is unscientific all the people who do not understand science they accused me saying that i should not say unscientific i have to say sin. so i told them no what i said unscientific is true and also it did not come from my religion. but i also said religion is scientific and they were mad at me. and said that is totally wrong. as a science student i provided some solid proofs that says religion is scientific. then as they could not find any new fact they started talking about quantum physics and me and roarkiller again provided some facts about that. So that is what happened to the thread.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.26.2012, 01:35 AM.
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| 03.26.2012, 12:43 AM |
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Orphic Okapi
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Registration Date: 04.08.07
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First Saviour said that there is no scientific basis for homosexuality and everyone with a rudimentary understanding of biology proved him wrong (with ample evidence). Then Saviour listed a number of passages from the Quran in an attempt to prove that Islam was scientifically accurate (though there is plenty of evidence to the contrary: http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific...s_in_the_Qur'an), since just saying "being gay is unscientific" over and over again wasn't working. Then Saviour tried to prove that God must exist because Newtonian physics exist. I countered by bringing up quantum physics, which run contrary to the rules of Newtonian physics, proving that physics are not constant at all levels of existence, which was the basis of his argument for the existence of God; I also mentioned that current science is very close to explaining how the universe might be capable of emerging from nothing all on its own. He then gave a stern lecture on quantum mechanics, which explained absolutely nothing I did not already know, and concluded that quantum physics are weird, so they don't matter to people, and that scientists are bad because they are trying to prove that the universe was created by chance - which is false, because one of the fundamental principles of science is that you should never set out to prove a deeply-held belief, but should be open to the truth whether it fits your conception of the universe or not; Saviour has therefore proved himself to be a bad scientist, because he is starting out with a preconceived notion of what the truth should be (taken from the Quran) and blinding himself to any evidence that appears to contradict that belief. Human beings start with beliefs and then look for evidence to support them; you can see this pattern of behavior in anyone with any kind of prejudice, from racism to sexism. Science is an effort to subvert that human tendency.
Then Roarkiller made some actually reasonable comments, to which I responded. Saviour ignored my response, and whined about how everyone was too dumb to understand science and got mad at him because they didn't have any evidence.
Now you have both sides of the story! 
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 03.26.2012, 03:05 AM.
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| 03.26.2012, 03:04 AM |
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saviour2012
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if i give explanation of those one by one will you believe in god.
Edit
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
First Saviour said that there is no scientific basis for homosexuality
when did i say that , i am saying for the fourth time being gay or lesbian is unscientifc
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
I also mentioned that current science is very close to explaining how the universe might be capable of emerging from nothing all on its own.
the day science can prove it, i will leave my religion [remember that nothing has to be ultimate vacuum not from energy]. And that near time is very near. in the underground tunnel test ,the scientist are almost able to make ultimate vacuum by magnets [i think as you are a genius you already know how can magnet do that]. If they can create energy from nowhere this is the place , if they can not then there is no possibility in upcoming 50-100 years. And do you know if scientists are able to create pure energy from ultimate vacuum it means there will be no conflict in the world. the problems we are talking about like women equality ,gay rights , war everything will be over for good.So let me hereby declare that in the underground tunnel test scientists will not be able to make pure energy. If they can you can call me whatever you want and i will do whatever you tell me.
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
scientists are bad because they are trying to prove that the universe was created by chance - which is false, because one of the fundamental principles of science is that you should never set out to prove a deeply-held belief
when did i say that
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
Saviour has therefore proved himself to be a bad scientist, because he is starting out with a preconceived notion of what the truth should be (taken from the Quran) and blinding himself to any evidence that appears to contradict that belief. Human beings start with beliefs and then look for evidence to support them; you can see this pattern of behavior in anyone with any kind of prejudice, from racism to sexism. Science is an effort to subvert that human tendency.
hahaha 
this is the reason why i thanked Allah for making Newton a non-muslim.
another thing the possibility of god is a question of life and death. If he is and you do not believe him means you are going to suffer, on the other hand if he is not then there is no problem. So everyone who do not want to believe in god should start to learn science and mathematics. Then just prove why there has to be a constant in almost every law[ both in classical and quantum physics]
. Other thing they can do is take a science section and a appropriate sub-section which can be proven by math, then try to find out any irregularity in the universe. Blindly believing scientist's theory will not take them anywhere.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.26.2012, 06:00 AM.
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| 03.26.2012, 03:26 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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neutrinos obey the speed limit. hurray
link
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 03.26.2012, 06:08 AM |
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Kazegami
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 08.19.07
Location: a world of pure imagination
Posts: 7025 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
First Saviour said that there is no scientific basis for homosexuality
when did i say that , i am saying for the fourth time being gay or lesbian is unscientifc
This is really starting to piss me off. People have asked you about this about four times, Saviour, and you've ignored them. How do you separate being gay or lesbian from being homosexual? They are the same thing.
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| 03.26.2012, 07:00 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
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Er, on the bright side, we're back on topic. Ha ha...  "
Spoiler: This post is off topic. Do Not Enter. Juz sayin'
And guys, I think it's best to just accept that saviour's understanding of the English language is fairly different from ours. "Literal" translation of words can have different meanings, and I like to assume that this is what is happening.
So um, to answer by quotations:
quote:
from this line i am assuming you are a mechanical engineer. are you?
Will be. Two more years before I get my degree. Though I'm more interested in design and research, really.
quote:
"Before time existed", means nothing existed since time is a function of things existing. Before time, there was nothing.
The moment of birth is part of the universe. There is before the universe began (maybe, that is its conjecture) and there is after. After includes the instant (to the nanosecond) that events began to occur, aka birth.
There are several theories on The beginning, none totally provable, but the Big Bang theory is the most popular, where the moment it happened was when Time first began, and is the model I will use (because the others are very complex and abstract, and I doubt many here will recognize them).
"Time is a function of things existing" is precisely the point; what happened BEFORE time existed? Once again, something cannot appear from nothing. And every theory and conjecture put out there has yet to go past theory and conjecture; there is strong evidence to support them, but none to prove them beyond reasonable doubt. I've read at least half a dozen of them, but none are satisfying enough.
And by the way, anti-matter, dark matter and other theories are heading in that direction, but they are nowhere close to it. The theories are very similar to our "accepted" theory of evolution of Man, yet every anthropologist will admit that the Missing Link, the one that links us homo sapiens and our supposed ancestors are, well, still missing.
quote:
But this isn't true. There's a reason modern physics is divided into two fairly separate categories: classical mechanics and quantum mechanics. Newton's laws of physics are incapable of precisely calculating motion on the quantum level:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_m...its_of_validity
Even on the particle level, bosons and fermions follow different sets of rules and behave differently. Two bosons can occupy the same physical space. Two fermions cannot. According to Newton, no two objects should be able to occupy the same physical space.
Er, wiki is never the bet place for answers, but that's not an excuse I'll ever use.
That link, though, is an invalid argument. My argument was using Newton's law of Motion, which is directly related to the laws of Conservation of Mass/Energy. The problem here is that Einstein's theory clashes with Newton's law (stated in an earlier post), and unfortunately, that formula of momentum is created by combining the two.
Obviously not the best of methods.
This, however, I just cannot accept:
quote:
(though there is plenty of evidence to the contrary: http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific...s_in_the_Qur'an)
Open your eyes, Orphic. Just like NC's link, this one blatantly dishes out half-truths and twisted lies. Point me any one line and I can straight out tell you what's wrong with the argument point blank.
Adding insult is it is already openly obvious that they are using translated scripts, which by default, is already an invalid study; the Quran is written in Arabic, and should be studied using Arabic. Any attempt to use translations as a basis of study is automatically invalid for the simple reason that translations are NEVER accurate.
Even more obvious is that there aren't even using full verses in their quotations, nor the verses before and after. Argument failure at its worst.
And considering that they even have a page about pedophilia, while ignoring the very simple fact that marriage =/= sex, I'll have to say one has to be pretty blind to not notice this. I can argue more about this page, but I'll leave it for now.
quote:
Then Roarkiller made some actually reasonable comments, to which I responded.
You mean... you mean... I have never...?
*cries*
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 03.26.2012, 12:27 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Kazegami
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
First Saviour said that there is no scientific basis for homosexuality
when did i say that , i am saying for the fourth time being gay or lesbian is unscientifc
This is really starting to piss me off. People have asked you about this about four times, Saviour, and you've ignored them. How do you separate being gay or lesbian from being homosexual? They are the same thing.
*nods sagely*
I'm still waiting for Saviour to respond to where I told him this last page. See Wiki link. Somwhere up there...
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| 03.26.2012, 12:40 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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off topic
about Qur'an translation everyone forgets one thing that it is Qur'an that has led the grammar of Arabic. So grammatical meaning always has a chance to be wrong, Still there are many words in Qur'an that we do not know any meaning, our prophet did not told us those as after the time passes by we will ourselves understand those. Those sites try to make others believe that what they published is the real Qur'an but most of the times it gets wrong.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 03.26.2012, 12:48 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
scientists are bad because they are trying to prove that the universe was created by chance - which is false, because one of the fundamental principles of science is that you should never set out to prove a deeply-held belief
when did i say that
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
As most of you are not science student you do not know what science really wants to prove. It wants to prove that everything in this universe is a work of pure accident.
Uh . . . right there?
quote:
Open your eyes, Orphic. Just like NC's link, this one blatantly dishes out half-truths and twisted lies. Point me any one line and I can straight out tell you what's wrong with the argument point blank.
It's a wiki. Which means it can be edited by anyone. Which means Muslims are free to edit out any "twisted lies" they might find. Can there possibly be a less biased source on the internet? If I had linked to a website run and edited solely by non-Muslims, or solely by Muslims, I'd understand your reaction here, but I tried to seek out the least biased source of information I could find. And I'm aware that the Quran is not supposed to be translated, and I understand why. But since it's unlikely I'll be learning Arabic any time soon, I'm trying to argue using the only resources available to me.
quote:
You mean... you mean... I have never...?
*cries*
Um, I think I was trying to compare your arguments favorably to Saviour's, in that I find yours much more reasonable.
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| 03.26.2012, 12:50 PM |
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saviour2012
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Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
scientists are bad because they are trying to prove that the universe was created by chance - which is false, because one of the fundamental principles of science is that you should never set out to prove a deeply-held belief
when did i say that
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
As most of you are not science student you do not know what science really wants to prove. It wants to prove that everything in this universe is a work of pure accident.
Uh . . . right there?
Orphic Okapi compare those two lines yourself, is there is anything that says researching is bad. I just said that is what science wants to prove. No problem you are not a science student so it can be forgiven.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 03.26.2012, 12:58 PM |
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Kazegami
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 08.19.07
Location: a world of pure imagination
Posts: 7025 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
quote:
Originally posted by Kazegami
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
First Saviour said that there is no scientific basis for homosexuality
when did i say that , i am saying for the fourth time being gay or lesbian is unscientifc
This is really starting to piss me off. People have asked you about this about four times, Saviour, and you've ignored them. How do you separate being gay or lesbian from being homosexual? They are the same thing.
*nods sagely*
I'm still waiting for Saviour to respond to where I told him this last page. See Wiki link. Somwhere up there...
Looks like we got blanked. Again. :B
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| 03.26.2012, 01:00 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
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| 03.26.2012, 01:08 PM |
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AmtrakDesertWindrider
Calcifer
Registration Date: 11.17.11
Location:
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So kiddies, what have we learned here?
[list=1]
[*]No matter what sexual orientation you have, it is acceptable.
[*]As long as you're not excessively outrageous and overt in displaying that opinion, you'll be fine.
[*]People have different beliefs on what "science" is--it can be perfectly independent of, or deeply entwined with, religion.
[*]Wiki pages, at best, are not as credible as an un-editable website, and are subject to change or complete defacement without humanity's consent.
[*]"Civil" discussion is, at best, only some utopian idea.
[/list=1]
Now I'll get off my soapbox here and shut up. Anyone else care to join me?
ADW - In before the lock!
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| 03.26.2012, 01:11 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
And I am saying science does not want to prove that the universe was created by chance?
i think you do not know the scientists on cosmology and astro-physics
just one name Stephen Hawking.
Then you say that science want to know what is the truth . As you are not a science student you do not know. Knowing the truth is not a choice or option in science. The truth is automatic here if the experiment is done rightly.
off topic :Man i love newton, specially for his scientist's method. everyone[the scientist of that time] was so mad at him because in that time it was a system that whenever a science theory comes all the scientist judge that and verify that by knowledge level of that time. But newton slapped at their faces. You just can not argue with newton
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.26.2012, 01:57 PM.
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| 03.26.2012, 01:51 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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Well! Can't argue with that.
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| 03.26.2012, 03:22 PM |
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hopexx5
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.17.11
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Sorry but, how did a thread about gay rights become a highly scientific affair?
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| 03.26.2012, 03:35 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
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Read up, it was summarized.
And threads deviate and go on tangents xP Not much else to do once opinions on the OT have been stated.
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| 03.26.2012, 03:55 PM |
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