roarkiller there may be some bugs causing problem in this thread.

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Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

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its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

quote:

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Originally posted by saviour2012
when you start to say something bad things about your religion i feel very unsecured because i do not want the comparative religion discussion if you do not want to . If you want that please open a thread.

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Post last edited by AmtrakDesertWindrider on 03.23.2012, 12:52 AM.

Roar... I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear, but what I was asking is if you could check out some of the links in that site and give your opinion as to whether or not it accurately follows what the Qu'ran says...

Is it a good or bad reference to the Qu'ran, I guess, is what I am trying to say...

Thanks,
Husky...

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@saviour: Bugs? What kind of bugs did you encounter?

@husky: Well it's not degrading the Quran, so I wouldn't say it's a bad link.

On accuracy, the few links I opened looked fine, but really, you can't totally rely on me to verify on its accuracy. Being a muslim, I'm bound to be biased, if even by a little.

The reason I reject the other link was because it's purpose was to blatantly derogate, not enlighten. There was no proper study, no real effort to understand the religion.

I don't mind if a scientist produces a study and claim that it contains something that contradicts my religion, because that is a study, an acadamic work. That website was just plain rubbish.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Why God or Allah is scientific

quote:

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Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
Saviour, your perspective of it being scientific is to me ridiculous, because I don't believe the concept of a God/Allah is scientific in the slightest.

I have spent two years now studying the philosophical/scientific arguments for God's existence and they have in no way convinced me, none of them are without faults.

To me the idea of any form of creationist deity is not scientific.

Science is based on empirical evidence, empirical evidence is that which is verifiable through experiments/observation. It can be proven to be the truth. Scientific theories have to have some form of evidence or proof to support them or they are not accepted as credible. To me in the thousands of years people have been claiming we are all ruled over by a being in the sky, not one shred of concrete evidence has existed to prove this.

I'm sorry I just don't think religion and science naturally come hand in hand. Essentially religion falls back on the concept of God and this cannot be scientifically proven.

As far as the gay pride parades go I have no problem with them at all. I know plenty of straight people who attend gay prides, especially the one in Brighton, because they find them fun, joyful experiences. The parades provide an opportunity for homosexuals to dress up in expressive ways and have fun with their sexuality. Yes sometimes those outfits are revealing, but no more so than the average thing you see a model wearing on a billboard as you walk down the street. I don't think you can claim yourself to be accepting of homosexuality and then ask them to 'tone it down'. I accept there's a shock factor and some people may find it a little unsettling, but I think that's a good thing, it expands people's minds and experiences. From all that I have heard from first-hand visitors to gay prides they've found them a fantastic experience.

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I do not know if you are a science student or not. If you are not a science student or study in school level then there is nothing very wrong, you just do not know. But if you are a science student and study in higher level than school then you should be ashamed of yourself, you are a total shame to the science community.


First of all let me start my discussion by quoting something from one of the greatest scientist of the world, Albert Einstein. he said

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

To prove a theory scientist use a special kind of method this is called scientist's method [not scientific] . This method was invented by Sir Isac Newton, when he discovered the laws of motion which practically founded the classical science. What is that method ? That method is when you want to prove a theory true [understand here , math is totally universal truth there will be never when there will be 2+2=5] you bring up some laws, and try to validate your theory from that law by mathematics. And it is done by Algebra [today specifically by calculus]. Do you know who invented Algebra, it was invented by Musa Al-Khwarizmi, an arab mathematician, In his Book "Al-jibr" . Algebra is the latin translation of it. And the total algebra part came from Al-Qur'an.

So when the scientist try to prove something by mathematics they could not do it. Because there is some-kind of special system in the universe in which their solution is proved wrong or can not prove it at-all. So then they started to put constant in the scientific laws.
They can not prove why there are such constant just there are. But they are very very real. look below the picture[sorry for the picture quality][ if you are a science student then you know what other things are , if you are not then you need not know]



So the scientist will never ever ever say something wrong if that can not be proved wrong by Mathematics. God is like this constant we can not prove or unprove [antonym of prove as i could not find any other word] his existence. It is Universal truth. When you question the existence of God you are actually asking Why 2+2=4 more easily you are asking why 1 is 1 why it is not 2. These are the basic fundamentals of Universe. You can not prove it does not mean it is not here. If the scientist takes the constants out of the equation then there will be no science at all.

Now even if we can not prove Allah's existence it does not mean he is stupid that he will not know that we will someday question his existence from scientific outlook. So he gave some pure paradigm or signs from which we can justify our question. Now try to understand Qur'an is a book of signs not a book of science. So it will not swim in science because if it did that its size would be unscientifically big[ even billions of library can not keep all the knowledge in the universe]. But there are many many scientific signs in it. some of them have been already proven and some will be proved in the future. Qur'an is a book for all time so there has to be something for the future people otherwise they will say Allah has left nothing for us. ALL of our prophets including Hazrat Musa [musas] , Hazrat Isa [ jesus crist] and Hazrat Muhammad knew these truths but Allah specifically said them not to tell those to us because he wanted us to discover those when the time is suitable for us.

Now i will give you five example of those signs that was given in Al-Qur'an

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1.the first example is from the time when the science was starting to make some sense

Earth is round and Earth moves round the Sun: Allah said in Al-Qur'an "

this line
"And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon, each in an orbit floating."
[Soorah al-Anbiyaaa verse=33] link

and this line
"He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving."
[Surah= az-zumar verse=5] link

these two lines say that earth,sun and moon has a orbit.

this line says sun is in the center of solar-system
"By the sun and its brightness. By the moon as it follows it (the sun)." [Soorah=ash-Shams 91 , verse=1-2] link
it says as the moon follows the earth so the earth follows sun.

so what do we get. Earth, Sun and Moon each has a orbit of its own. Moon circles around the Earth, And the Earth circles around the Sun. And the sun not only is in the center but also it has a orbit so it circles around the galaxy. it was seen by arab scientist but the others criticized them as they got no proof. [ it was a good thing what other scientist did because Allah never said us to take a sign from Qur'an and say it is right unless we have some real evidence]. This thing was first discovered by kopernicus and then re-discovered by galilio.

another proof of that time , it is easier
"Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?"
[Surah=nuh verse=15-16] link
it is so easy i do not need to explain [about the reflection and light source thing]. the seven layers have not been proved yet but i have a theory but i do not have a proof the first layer is earth, the second layer is solar system, the third layer is milky-way our galaxy, fourth layer is galaxy groups, fifth layer is something that contains all the galaxy groups, sixth layer is universe, seventh layer is heaven and hell or something that contains those. My theory collapses from fifth to seventh layer as it has not been discovered yet. and please do not steal my theory because if i can prove it mathematically then i can get a Nobel price in physics.
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2.Now let me come to the recent scientific laws. If you are a student whether you are a science student or not you should know about special theory of relativity [if you do not know about this,which is the greatest discovery of 20th century, you should be ashamed of yourself]. This discovery totally displaced almost every laws that were made thinking that time and space were constant but Einstein made this totally wrong he said time and space and mass is dependent on the velocity of a subject so it is totally relative to that person. what is ten thousand years to one may be just a couple of seconds to other. though it was proved mathematically true, scientist did not wanted to believe it so they checked it again and again but this particular law was proved both in mathematics and in experiments unlike any other law in earth. So it is a Universal Truth. [ if you are a science student you may probably noticed that in the underground tunnel test neotreno was proved faster than light which was a constant in this law but that does not change the outcome because it will only change the ratio of how much time or space will be lengthen or shorten but still time and space will be shorten or lengthen which the main law is actually] This law started the modern science [which contains relativity , quantum mechanics, string theory etc]

Now in Islam one of the greatest inconsistency was Meraj. It is the night when Prophet Muhammad traveled great distances at a very very short amount of time. Although no scientist could prove that traveling great distance in a very very short time was impossible, they accused islam of being faulty for this certain event. But now we can prove that by Special theory of relativity. The thing in which Prophet Muhammad traveled was called Buraq. What kind of thing it was we do not know that still, but it surely could Fly at a very very great speed [almost near the speed of light or even more]. But we do not know if it is a animal or a machine . Our prophet described that as a Animal-like he did not particularly said that it was an animal. From his description we find out that it had wings and many pictures were drawn from that view. In those pictures The Buraq thing looked like a Pegasus. But that does not need to be true because Aeroplane was not invented then and the voice activation and voice command system was not invented in that time either. So even if he knew what was that , if he told those man in Mecca that they would not believe him. So the Buraq Being unscientific point is greatly handled.

Now let me come to the point of spending great amount of time in the travel while it was a very short time in Earth. In Special theory of relativity if you can travel at a very very high speed then you can spend more time than who is still. The easiest way to understand relativity is done by Einstein "if you spend your time near a beautiful lady then 5 hours may seem only 5 minutes to you on the other hand if you stay 5 minutes near fire it may seem 5 years to you." This is the easiest way to make someone understand about relativity i do not think myself smarter than Einstein so i will not try. By math it is easier to make someone understand it.

So as Buraq traveled at a very very high speed then it was possible for prophet Muhammad to spent a great amount of time in the travel while it was very short time in the earth. I can not prove that in description because it needs math to understand and i do not know your math level.

So if you need mathematical explanation then just ask.

N.B: now in internet it is flooded that if Muhammad traveled at a great amount of speed then why there was no physical change made to him as he was in human form after all. Now get the point about that, we know for space traveling we need special kind of suit and accessories. And Allah did not deny it either so before the travel was started Gibril [the massanger angel] made him ready for the travel following special methods. Hope you understood.

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Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

continue

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3. Now let us come to the most modern scientific laws or discovery. One is the Big Bang theory and Other is Universe's expansion.

Let me come to the Universe's Expansion first: Everyone should know about Edwin hubble. He was the first one who said that there are other galaxy's in our universe. And his greatest success is the discovery of Universe's expansion. how did we find out Universe is expanding? It is very easy if you know dopler effect. What is it ? the dopler effect came from sound science. It is very easy to understand . It can be described most easily by trains but as many of the people here are not acquainted with train horn i will explain it with cars too. before a train reaches the station's platform it blows it's horn, now the people who are standing in the platform will hear the sound of horn harsher i mean the sound will be sharper than usual. So it means when a sound source is moving towards a listener the sound will be sharper than normal and when a sound source is going away from a listener the sound will sound less sharper than normal. You will find example of it when a car passes by you blowing it's horn.

As sound is a form of wave , so is light [scientist has agreed to the point that light has both wave form and particle form]. So the same thing happens with light too. The lights wave moves blue to red when the light source is moving away from us, it is called the red shift. So Edwin Hubble found out that the waves of light is moving from blue to red in his telescope. And that signifies that the stars were moving away from us . So the theory of universe's expansion came from him and which was later proved a law.

Do you know it was told in Qur'an in approximately 1400 years ago
"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
[Surah=Adh-Dhāriyāt ,verse=47] link
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lets move to the next one That is Big-Bang theory It is not a law the first part has been proven and is a Universal Truth but the second part has not been proven yet

In big-bang theory before the universe there was a ultimate vacuum. Then how in the world did the universe come from . But scientists proved there is not any need of any matter to create universe . how? the solution is Einstein's equation E=mc^2 which says energy and matter is the same. so if there is a tremendous amount of energy you can make matter and on the other hand if you have a very little amount of matter then you can have a great amount of energy, which is done in nuclear bombs. As Allah has infinite amount of energy and so that he only could easily create universe. But still there is a point because it is not the big-bang theory that wants to understand what was before universe it wants to understand what happened after it.

So they came with a point that all of the universe's mass[which was created by using tremendous amount of energy] was stored in a point. Then it exploded and started to expand. And that explosion is called the Big-bang.
Now see what Qur'an says about it

"Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass (ratqan), then We clove them asunder (fataqna)?"
[surah= al-anbya verse=30] link

and

"And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un)."
[surah=Adh-Dhāriyāt verse=47] link

But it is still not clear enough if Qur'an says that why it does not say how the galaxy and the solar systems were made or from what kind of thing it was made. In this point you have to understand how the galaxy and the solar system and the planets formed from after the big-bang. The scientist proved that just after the Big-bang everything was in gaseous form, the only primary particle that was available then was Hydrogen which is number 1 element in periodic table. It has only one electron and one proton. this is the basic element of universe. In the Newtons law of gravitation it is said that there is a attraction in every particle in the world. So after a little bit shattering these particle felt the gravitational force so they come near. the more particle come near the more stronger the gravitational force becomes , so after sometime almost all the particles which were nearby came close. This caused a huge ball of gas. But now the gravitational force is tremendous so the particles started colliding with each other and started nuclear fusion-reaction. That is how stars were made. But the bigger the stars are the more unstable they becomes. So after sometime the big stars which is at-least 2.5 times bigger than sun explode. This explosion is called the super nova explosion. In this process the secondary elements like oxygen, nitrogen,florin etc are made. Our earth was formed from a supernova explosion like this.

See what Qur'an says about that
"Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: 'Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.' They said: 'We do come (together), in willing obedience.''
[ Surah=Surat Fuşşilat verse=11] link

It can be easily understood from that verse that Allah commanded the gaseous substance that was scattering around the universe to come close by creating gravitation and then he said to earth to come where it should be positioned. the willingness of obedience refers to abiding by the rules of Physics specially the rules of motion.you can not see any particle in the world that defies the laws of physics.
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See what Allah said about the explosion of stars which starts a nebula

"And when the heaven split asunder and become ROSY-LIKE PAINT "

different translation

"And when the heaven is split open and becomes rose-colored like oil "

[surah=Ar-Rahman verse=37] link


and see this picture

__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Saviour, what you have done is to point out several examples within the Qur'ran which can be interpreted to be referring to scientifically proven theories. I thought you did so quite well, so hats off to you, since I am not a science student but I managed to follow your points fairly well I believe.

The problem is that even if one is to accept that these interpretations of words in the Qur'ran are referring to these scientific principles, that still doesn't discount my argument that the existence of God is not proven by any scientific principle. Regardless of the fact that science cannot prove he doesn't exist, the matter remains that there is no scientific evidence to suggest he does.

Mistake me if I am wrong but you appear to be arguing that there is evidence of science in the Qur'ran which are signs employed by Allah to imply his existence?

A problem literary students often run into, when analysing a book, is the question of how much of the complexity and depth involved can be put down to the intentional, intelligent efforts of the author and how much is due to the reader simply looking for symbolism and presuming it to be intentional - does that make sense?

What I'm saying is, a number of those quotes you pointed to could certainly be taken in a scientific capacity, but perhaps this is a case of the reader looking for greater significance than actually exists to the language? That's how I feel anyway.

I don't know, I'm just not sure what you're trying to disprove about my argument. I said that I felt religion failed to be scientific because it all lies on the assumption of a divine deity, which I don't think can be satisfactorily scientifically proven. I'm sure there are scientific elements to the Qur'ran but that doesn't cancel out my argument.

(We have definitely gone off on a tangent here :') we should probably get back to the topic at hand, of homosexuality!)

If Allah created humans, with the natural capacity to be homosexual, but expected them not to act on it, he'd be a pretty nasty divine ruler. To make somebody spend their entire loves feeling attracted to, loving, wanting to be closer to, a member of the opposite sex but then being expected to give up all hope of such happiness seems to be ridiculously cruel. I don't understand how one can reconcile the idea of a loving God with a God that would inflict that kind of misery on people.

The notion of science and religion going together is weird to me. haha

When I looked up the country my boyfriend was born in, he told me most of the people there were Muslim.

It is sad to think that those who are homosexual should never act upon their love. It's already hard enough on them. Forcing them to be straight is ridiculous because, in my opinion, that would be impossible. They'd be miserable.

quote:

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Originally posted by foreignfilmfreak
The notion of science and religion going together is weird to me. haha

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Why would it be weird? If god exists, then he would be the one who created physics.

quote:

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It is sad to think that those who are homosexual should never act upon their love. It's already hard enough on them. Forcing them to be straight is ridiculous because, in my opinion, that would be impossible. They'd be miserable.

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No no, you don't force them to be straight. You do not force yourself to be who you are not. You just don't act upon what your religion tells you is sin.

quote:

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The problem is that even if one is to accept that these interpretations of words in the Qur'ran are referring to these scientific principles, that still doesn't discount my argument that the existence of God is not proven by any scientific principle. Regardless of the fact that science cannot prove he doesn't exist, the matter remains that there is no scientific evidence to suggest he does.

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Er, the Big Bang Theory sorta proves Genesis, actually And the scientists aren't quoting the Quran, they're quoting the Bible.

So, meh.

Okay, we are SO off track right now. But don't we always. Sigh... Before I continue, let it be known that the following is not my opinion, nor my own observations. This are documented facts published in peer-reviewed papers around the world.

So, on scientific proof of god, here's one for thought: we have two specific laws in physics, conservation of mass and conservation on energy (or momentum).

According to these two laws, neither can be created from nowhere, nor can they be destroyed (as in cease to exist). The problem with these two theories is simple: If neither can be created or destroyed, then where do they come from in the first place?

Scientists are explaining the existence of matter with anti-matter. In simple term, anti-matter negates matter, where the combination of both would cause the destruction of both. The idea is that half the universe is made up of anti-matter. Here, the explanation is sound, as anti-matter has been produced in labs for decades.

But therein lies another problem. The combination of matter and anti-matter converts into pure energy. Then we are still left with another problem: where did THAT energy come from? More importantly, during the Big Bang, what was the catalyst that caused it?

So we have two missing pieces of the equation. Back to square one.

Another school of thought is more direct, but controversial. Either Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, or Newton's laws of motion are wrong, or BOTH are wrong.

This is easier to check. Einstein's theory actually FAILS when it comes to quantum mechanics (protons and electrons), so it's not universal at all, and has been sadly acknowledged by scientists unversally. As for Newton's laws, people forget that his laws are based on observation, and in fact has NEVER been proven before. They are accepted because no one has found a case that contradicts hemt, yet no one has been able to prove them either.

In other words, Newton's laws of motion are actually conjectures without proof. That is to say everything we learn about physics are all based on conjectures.

If so, then everything makes sense. Matter and energy may be able to come from nowhere. Yet even this cannot be proven, otherwise there wouldn't be an energy crisis in the world.

Final bottomline: science has failed to prove how everything came to be.

Religion though, have been happy with accepting god. After all, if everything has a beginning, and we reach a point where we cannot prove anything beyond a certain point, well, there's Genesis right there (so some scientists claim, and I mean non-Christian too).

So in way, God's existence has indeed been proven. And the only way to disprove this "proof" is to disprove the basic laws of physics itself. Tall order, no?

And in final admittance: yes, I'm a science geek. Engineering ftw, lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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If we can't explain where matter and energy come from, how does that mean that god exists? I'd like to know how god came to be to create all this matter in the first place as well.

Sorry for being way off topic....

I am not sure you can dismiss all of science's work and advancements over the last 200 years in a few sentences Roar. Unfortunately I'm not qualifued to argue these points.

However as far as this argument goes and as George says, any lack of a scientific explanation for the universe's existence does not mean it was created by a diety.

What men wrote in ancient texts isn't a basis on which to try and disprove science since a good number of ancient civilizations had wildly different pantheons of gods and belief systems. Clearly they are not in agreement so cannot be all correct, thus faith is not universal and cannot be a universal answer or explanation. Just because you believe in one faith system does not make it right nor true (and that takes us back to religious wars again).

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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

Life is too short for text walls.

I think I will start volunteering at my town's LGBT centre this summer. It would be fun, I think. I mean, working in the charity shop last summer was fairly enjoyable, but it wasn't a cause I was particularly passionate about and I think I was the only person there under sixty. LGBT issues are much closer to my heart and it looks like a very diverse group of people there.

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Gays lesbians biesexuals, They are no less human than anyone else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Saddletank
However as far as this argument goes and as George says, any lack of a scientific explanation for the universe's existence does not mean it was created by a diety.

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__________________
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I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

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Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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quote:

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So something has to happen in the beginning, and this something must come from nowhere. Something that totally defies physics in its entirety.

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 03.24.2012, 03:23 PM.

I don't agree that the observable universe has qualities that "totally defy physics in its entirety".

And even if it did why would a god create a universe that defied the laws of physics he then set to rule and maintain it? That makes as little sense as a universe that defies scientific explanation.

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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)

Hm, I can understand religious believers arguments as far as science goes, it just doesn't seem satisfactory to me.

Though I don't believe in God I am perfectly able to acknowledge the possibility that there is one, it just isn't something I hold as a belief myself.

The problem with arguing about any religious believer on the existence of God is that he's like a really over powered superhero. By this I mean, I can point to evolution as an example of science contradicting Genesis - and a religious believer can just say 'Oh yep, God did that'. I can question the existence of evil in the world and there's the good ol' 'Oh God has a plan' argument. Whatever hole I may poke in the argument of God as he is apparantly omniscient/omipotent/omnipresent a religious believer can always find a loophole. I find it frustrating because 'Oh God can do anything so that explains away all the problems inherent with my religion' doesn't seem satisfactory to me at all.

Plus the whole matter of us not being able to thoroughly explain certain scientific principles may simply be due to our science not being advanced enough yet. Given time humanity will probably be able to explain these things, just as it always has done in the past. Labelling it as an 'act of God' just seems to me like taping up a hole in the hull of a ship until proper repairs can be made.

Yeah

This post is dedicated to Albert Einstein, Sir Isac Newton and another scientist you do not know. He is from my country and worked 20 years in bell labs, was one of the persons who invented UNIX kernel [ the main thing from which all the operating systems like microsoft windows , mac os and linux came from.] I want to thank Allah for making Sir Isac Newton a non-muslim, if he was a muslim then everyone would call him a liar and biased. I specially want to thank Sir Isac Newton's spirit for his invention of scientist's method. And i want to thank human kind for inventing mathematics because no one can question its credibility.

First of all as almost everyone here is not a science student. They are finding it difficult why the laws in classical science does not apply to quantum mechanics.

The answer is very simple the world of Quantum mechanics and the world we live in are totally different

When we are talking about quantum mechanics we are talking about the inside world of atoms. Quantum Mechanics is a science where we try to find out about the very very very little particles of the world.

The lines that says that The laws of classical science has failed in Quantum mechanics is wrong because it is not true. The truth is those laws can not applicable.

Why?

that is a big question. To understand that we have to understand how do we measure something. Anything can be measured by comparison. So the scientist created scales to compare what we want to measure. Like if we want to know how much tall we are then we measure our height by comparing it with a ruler or scale. This example was easy but when we want to measure velocity or momentum it is a little bit different. To do that we must know two things one is the starting point or momentum and anything relative to the thing of which we want to measure the velocity. Now in the real world when we do that we can find out both so we can do that precisely but in the level of quantum it is different. This little bit energy does not distort big object from its position but it can when it comes to quantum.

Where this energy thing in measuring coming from?weird

No it is not, because to know or measure anything we must transmit energy. The easiest example is eye. When we see something light hits our eye's rod and cone cells. So we can see. But when the light is off even if we keep our eyes open we will not be able to see anything because there is no transmission of energy. This is why a black hole is called a black hole because there is no energy coming from it so we can not know anything from it. So when it comes to the classical physics law when we measure something even if we transmit energy the amount of energy is so little that it can not change any properties of the experiment subject to a significant level. But when we come to quantum mechanics this little bit energy does a lot more damage. The atom is so small that even the strongest microscope can not see it not even the electron microscope. And in the quantum mechanics we are talking about million or billion times smaller particle than atom.

Understanding this special property Werner Heisenberg proved his Law of uncertainty which is one of the basic foundational law of quantum mechanics.
This law says that in the quantum level we cannot know both the momentum and the position of a particle precisely at the same time. If we cannot know these two things precisely then we cannot apply the laws of classical physics.

Why we cannot know these two properties of particle precisely?
Because in the quantum level we are talking about very very very small particle. Electron and other small particles are very very small. So whenever we want to know something from quantum level we are actually hitting a quanta with a quanta [ quanta is the smallest possible energy packet, Albert Einstein proved it and got his Nobel prize]. It is like hitting a marble with a marble. If you hit a marble with a marble it will surely get misplaced but if you hit it to a bigger object it will not misplaced at all. For this problem we cannot find out both the momentum and position of a quanta. As we cannot get those properties we cannot apply the rules or laws of classical physics.

Marbles

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Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

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I am a total layperson when it comes to science, but my understanding of modern cosmology is that the laws of Newtonian physics - the laws which state that something cannot come from nothing - are regularly defied by the universe itself, on the quantum level.

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Originally posted by Roarkiller

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Originally posted by Saddletank I don't agree that the observable universe has qualities that "totally defy physics in its entirety".

And even if it did why would a god create a universe that defied the laws of physics he then set to rule and maintain it? That makes as little sense as a universe that defies scientific explanation.

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Something from nothing defies physics. Like I said, there is no way for science to produce something from nothing.

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"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)