quote:

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Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
It's not even "weird" in every society. It was the norm in ancient Greece for men.

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風 の エンジニア
Also, Twilight Sparkle is best pony!

boys and girls please give more attention to the important and scientific topic of women equality.

We will be able to talk about this unscientific thing later.

to girls we are talking about you so when you do not post specially i start to think that you do not want your right.

two simple words like i agree or i disagree will be enough for me to understand that you are following.

To the new comers
We have discussed about dress sense and it has been unanimously approved that dress sense is a must for everybody and that must be kept in order to maintain stability.

now we are talking about the fact that women is harassed around the world in spite of the dressings .[ i mean even if they are dressed modestly]


And you are making some silly mistakes i do not understand why are you not understanding the point.


kissing a boy to a boy or kissing a girl to a girl is not homosexuality at all. You do not know what is gay and lesbian is at all

the person who is gay is the guy who entertains his sexual need by a guy. And that is totally unscientific. i does not matter to the society if you get attracted to your own sex it matters when you do sex with him. because that unbalances the principles of nature. i will make that post after the issue of women equality is solved.

i would have made a big post but there is more important matters at hand [ women's equality around the world]

__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.21.2012, 03:05 AM.

Well a homosexual is someone who is attracted to just, or mainly their own sex. Well that's how i define it.

What do you mean by scientific and unscientific?

__________________

quote:

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Originally posted by Calforsale
Well a homosexual is someone who is attracted to just, or mainly their own sex. Well that's how i define it.

What do you mean by scientific and unscientific?

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__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

quote:

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Originally posted by saviour2012
boys and girls please give more attention to the important and scientific topic of women equality.

We will be able to talk about this unscientific thing later.

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__________________

Oh dear. Looks like I started something. ::sigh:: Sorry if this sounds angry at parts... I was actually pretty upset when writing certain parts. And also, my apologies if I misinterpreted anything.

===

@Roar: Because of course, majority rules has historically always been right. Society in general is always right, has it not? Like when it thought it was acceptable to enslave people. And like when it thought women weren't people at all. And like when it thought the Earth was the centre of the universe. There are countless times when society in general has been wrong. And we have overcome that error in thinking on the strength of a few strong voiced individuals.

quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
The main difference between your society and theirs, and why such liberal change cannot, and should not, happen yet.

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i will talk about it if all of us are available at the same time

please inform me the gmt that most of you are available the time can be defined in range like gmt6 to gmt 9. and also a suggested date may be proposed.

And if you agree with me with this issue [i mean there will be no " i like it that way" kind of talks only right or wrong] then you have to promise me that you will be back on the main discussion. [ equality of women]

And roarkiller has to delete my post after the discussion [ that is why i need all of you here at the same time] you all will be there so you will not miss it but after the discussion it has to be deleted. [ only my posts and the other post that contains anything related to my posts]

discussion will be 6 to 7 hours . so it has to be a holiday of yours. [we could do it in some other place by using group chat option but that will catch attention] there is no hurry. take your time i will be available until the end of this month.

no matter what the posts of discussion has to be deleted by roarkiller .
if that is a deal then i am in otherwise i am out.

__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.21.2012, 07:29 AM.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
@Roar: Because of course, majority rules has historically always been right. Society in general is always right, has it not? Like when it thought it was acceptable to enslave people. And like when it thought women weren't people at all. And like when it thought the Earth was the centre of the universe. There are countless times when society in general has been wrong. And we have overcome that error in thinking on the strength of a few strong voiced individuals.

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fenkashi you do not understand those rules were made by humans , and you know how they are. To solve those problems and errors there are rules that came straight from god.

And those rules were never proved wrong.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Sex unbalances the principle of nature? If you're talking about the actual sex part, if it was all that unnatural, it would not be possible at all. In fact, homosexual sex often happens in nature. If you're talking about the reproductive aspect of sex, I'd tell you to get with the times. Sex stopped being solely about reproduction a long time ago. I would say it never was to begin with, but with contraception now, it is more so separated to server various purposes than before.

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Are you out of your mind . I do not know how many of you are science students . But if you were then you would not say that reproduction is not the main reason for intercourse.

Don't mind

__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.21.2012, 07:17 AM.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Oh dear. Looks like I started something. ::sigh:: Sorry if this sounds angry at parts... I was actually pretty upset when writing certain parts. And also, my apologies if I misinterpreted anything.

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Well you guys were saying it's kinda dead recently, no?

===

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
@Roar: Because of course, majority rules has historically always been right. Society in general is always right, has it not? Like when it thought it was acceptable to enslave people. And like when it thought women weren't people at all. And like when it thought the Earth was the centre of the universe. There are countless times when society in general has been wrong. And we have overcome that error in thinking on the strength of a few strong voiced individuals.

quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
The main difference between your society and theirs, and why such liberal change cannot, and should not, happen yet.

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If people wait for the right time to make change, no change would happen. There is bound to be backlash with such a controversial issue... the point is that the government is not even willing to TALK about this change. It's not going to magically appear one day. People won't wake up thinking, oh hey, let's consider giving those gays some rights.

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Sadly, that's how the world works. I don't agree with it, obviously, I don't believe in majority.

But that's how it works. If you hate it, be a politician. I'll vote for you.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
And I'm sorry. What obscene things, exactly, are being done by homosexuals in public?

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The same thing heterosexuals are doing, apparently.

Which was the point of the original article: banning of homosexual sex, not homosexuality itself.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
@Captain George: You're taking issue with what a person does with their identity? As strange as I find that, you're perfectly within your rights to be annoyed at whatever you like. I'd just like to say though, the people that form their whole identity around their sexuality generally have a reason for doing so, and imo a pretty admirable one.

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I'm proud to be a man and thus will wear sleeveless shirts and spread my manly odour around in public.

Err... no. There are things you just don't do in public. Like petting. Sexual orientation be damned. Which was what george was getting at.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Sex stopped being solely about reproduction a long time ago. I would say it never was to begin with, but with contraception now, it is more so separated to server various purposes than before.

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Um... no? It's called reproductive organs for a reason. Nature did not do a 180 just because we want it to be so.

And dolphins are the only other animal on Earth who have sex for the heck of it.

__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
And dolphins are the only other animal on Earth who have sex for the heck of it.

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__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

If it happens in nature, then it is natural.

__________________

First of all, saviour, please don't decide by yourself when, where and what time frame we shall all have a conversation about this on. Everyone here are on quite completely different times, I'm GMT for example, whilst I think we have the odd australian etc. Plus very few people have plenty of hours to spare to do so. It just isn't logistically that possible. Plus I don't think it's necessary, we're all capable of just replying to posts at whatever time presumably? Also please stop trying to introduce the topic of women's equality in this thread, since this is related to gay rights and is a completely different issue. It just would make more sense to bring it up there, if people are still interested in discussing it

As far as the 'unnatural' thing goes I don't really think there is an argument for this anymore, with modern science and the research that has gone on.

Throughout history huge numbers of attempts have been made to turn homosexual people heterosexual, plenty of religious groups in particular have set up institutions to do just that. I think there was even an NHS iniative that employed the use of electrotherapy etc. All of these have failed. I have never heard of a homosexual person ever being converted into a heterosexual person. It is in their nature, if you spoke to a homosexual person they would tell you it is something they have felt from a very young age. It isn't something instilled in you by your environment, since there are examples of people from a huge variety of cultures being gay - I mean mormons who have never had access to any kind of media or anything, who have grown up with strict religious teachings, have been homosexual. Arguments as to choice or whatever appear to me to be simply defunct.

As for the whole animals thing, did you know that ducks are geese are known to form homosexual couplings? Heterosexual females lay their eggs in the homosexual couplings nest, and it has been remarked that the homosexual parents are often better at raising their young. Male lions have sex with each other frequently. In dwarf chimpanzee communities bisexuality is an essential part of their social interactions.

We are the only species that punishes members of our own species for being homosexual. That sounds damn unnatural to me.

Obviously reproduction is necessary to the survival of the race, but since throughout nature homosexual couplings exist alongside heterosexual couplings it is to be presumed that some life forms are just born this way. Research has gone into the theory that homosexuals have different brains but I don't know much about that or how well it has been proven. Regardless I think it's something that does come naturally to people so arguments against it are ludicrous.

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
@Mokipoet and Captain George: Yes, please do excuse the people who have, for a large part, grown up in fear (of losing family and friends, of being bashed and marginalized, of who they fundamentally are) for wanting a little solidarity by means of a parade once a year. How dare they.

And I'm sorry. What obscene things, exactly, are being done by homosexuals in public?

@Captain George: You're taking issue with what a person does with their identity? As strange as I find that, you're perfectly within your rights to be annoyed at whatever you like. I'd just like to say though, the people that form their whole identity around their sexuality generally have a reason for doing so, and imo a pretty admirable one.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
First of all, saviour, please don't decide by yourself when, where and what time frame we shall all have a conversation about this on.

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__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.21.2012, 02:17 PM.

Saviour, I don't understand what is unscientific about mine or other pro-homosexuality arguments? I acknowledged that in terms of reproduction homosexual sex isn't something that can be universalised, but that does not mean it is unnatural. Plenty of scientific research has in fact gone into proving that it is natural, at least to some people.

Post last edited by Nausicaa_Cat on 03.21.2012, 02:27 PM.

Okay what o_o bondage costumes?

Captain George, I get where you're coming from. Totally. All I am saying is I understand why some of these people would want to be shocking. You might be okay with them being homosexual, but so many people in the world think it is dirty and shocking and wrong... and when you are unable to change these opinions, you embrace it and wear them proudly in retaliation. The displays are a big 'screw you' to the world.

quote:

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Which was the point of the original article: banning of homosexual sex, not homosexuality itself.

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__________________

quote:

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Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
Saviour, I don't understand what is unscientific about mine or other pro-homosexuality arguments? I acknowledged that in terms of reproduction homosexual sex isn't something that can be universalised, but that does not mean it is unnatural. Plenty of scientific research has in fact gone into proving that it is natural, at least to some people.

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__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Roar and Savior... I suppose knowing you I should have spelled it out. In human society sex was never soley about reproduction.

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__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it

Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.

Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.

If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.

its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi

Right. I can reply with one word.

Contraceptives.

__________________

quote:

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Originally posted by saviour2012

quote:

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Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
Saviour, I don't understand what is unscientific about mine or other pro-homosexuality arguments? I acknowledged that in terms of reproduction homosexual sex isn't something that can be universalised, but that does not mean it is unnatural. Plenty of scientific research has in fact gone into proving that it is natural, at least to some people.

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it is sometimes better to keep the mouth shut [ i will start to do that from now on in this thread ]

but whenever something unscientific comes i will shout unscientific. [you did the same thing by saying my points sexist and without totally explaining those and then left the thread]

repost:you wanted an explanation roar gave that to you. but you are still denying the facts.if some more explanation is needed from me then all of you who want to do the discussion has to to stay with me in the same time that may be your time i do not care. So after the discussion the posts can be deleted. and that is also dependent on roarkiller. [ i do not want a record to be kept about our discussion][ it is actually dependent only on me at first i said i will not talk about rights at all, then you people started to post unscientific things as you can't promise to bite your tongue if something really hideously sexist comes up just like that i can not mine when someone posts something hideously unscientific] [ another thing can be done if you want to talk in a chat then just ask me]

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Saviour, if you're only contribution to this thread will occasionally be to comment that something is 'unscientific' without any further explanation, you may as well not contribute at all. When I said I would stay out of the Equality thread unless I saw something I found extremely sexist, and was thus so offended I couldn't help but join in, I would have joined in on the basis I wouldn't just say something was sexist but explain my remark. Otherwise that would just be hugely pointless.

You also seem to think people dropped out of the other debate because it was going on at different times for different people, so it was a matter of inconveniance. Actually, the whole point of forum posting is that because people can post at any time in the conversation that doesn't really affect it - it isn't like a webchat, where the conversation is going on in real time anyway. People dropped out of the sexual equality argument I believe because they felt frustrated, since they didn't feel their points were being understood or acknowledged. Or perhaps they simply felt they had said what they needed to say, and didn't wish to go on any further. It is up to each individual the extent they want to write on a subject, the whole point of the forum is fun, and if people aren't having fun in a thread they don't need to continue in it.

Also, you'd have to wait for Roar's reply, but it isn't usual for posts to be deleted after you've written them. If you want them deleted because you'd feel uncomfortable having what you've said available on the internet to be scrutinised or whatever, then simply don't say anything that would make you uncomfortable. Though maybe you have other reasons for wanting it deleted?

As for your comment that it is 'totally wrong' that 'In human society sex was never solely about reproduction' I would like to in turn say you are totally wrong. There has always been greater meaning to sex than the production of babies. In Ancient Greek and Spartan times, many civilisations featured men having sex so as to bond and deepen their friendships, a particular band of warriors (whose name currently escapes me but I could look them up if you like) were encouraged hugely to have sex with each other because it was thought they became a better fighting unit that way - sex deepend the degree to which they cared about each other and were intimate with each other. People don't just have sex to create children, it's a pleasurable experience which connects two people in a way that nothing else really can. You wouldn't tell a heterosexual barren woman or sterile man that he can't have sex, so why is this enforced on homosexuals?

As far as I'm concerned anybody who thinks sex is only good for producing offspring clearly hasn't been having good sex