Ghibli Tavern - Revolutionary Girl Utena

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SPOILER EP 14

I think my idea of what is ridiculous kicks in at a lower level than it does with you, there's lots about the setting that grates on me because of its fantastical elements. I've always preferred stories based in settings that are closer to our reality. To me the kangaroo boxing thing was just daft.

Question - at the end of ep.14 when Anthy visits her older brother alone, do they have incestuous sex? It's the only way I've interpreted that scene so far.

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 11.03.2013, 02:18 PM.

11.01.2013, 06:27 PM

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KIND OF NOT REALLY A SPOILER FOR EP 14?

AND THEN KIND OF NOT REALLY A SPOILER FOR EP 6

I forgot that Anthy starts visiting her brother so soon. But I will let you come to your own conclusions regarding her visits. It becomes apparent by the end of the Black Rose arc what she goes there for (or, well, becomes apparent after you watch Episode 23 five times to figure out what on earth was going on). But she also might go for more than one purpose.

You've raised an interesting issue about the setting of Utena. I don't want to say too much about it, but the nature of the setting is addressed a bit later. Here's an interesting quote about the author of the manga, who had little involvement with the show, so take her opinion with a grain of salt: "Saito described her creation of the manga as being one that got its inspiration largely through her own confusion about what exactly she was supposed to show, and Ikuhara's own vague answers to her questions. After trying several approaches, she just went ahead and started writing the story as if it were a fantasy. 'And well into the manga series, the TV series started, and I realized just how wrong I was,' she laughed. 'Eventually, when I saw the animation, I finally realized that it was a projection of a world that is, in fact, inside the characters' minds, and that's what Mr. Ikuhara wanted all along.' "

The kangaroo boxing IS ridiculous, but I appreciate the show's bizarre sense of humor. It's definitely not afraid to make fun of itself. Your tolerance for daftness will be tested by the upcoming Nanami episodes, which are actually some of my favorites, particularly "Nanami's Egg."

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 11.03.2013, 06:43 PM.

11.01.2013, 07:27 PM

Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
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Yeah, if you're after a realistic setting then Utena will disappoint. It's thoroughly entrenched in fairytale themes, and you can see that in the setting. Of course, like any good fairytale, it reflects things about the real world too. It also includes a lot of surreal elements that might not be your cup of tea unfortunately. I think the best you can do is try to warm to that side of it, and hopefully as it goes on you'll appreciate it more! By the way, if you think the fantastical aspect of Utena isn't to your liking, you should maybe steer clear of the movie...

Like Orphic, I'd rather not say too much about what was going on there. There are many parts in the story that are open to interpretation and this is certainly intentional. Later revelations can confirm or deny some stuff from earlier in the show, but some questions are left deliberately unanswered. So if something is unclear, just assume what you will, and see what happens.

And as for the silly parts and filler episodes - by and large I really like them! The humour is strange but enjoyable and shows a different side to the characters and story. And Utena is a rare case where I feel that the filler episodes (usually Nanami-focused) are well worth watching! The kangaroo boxing is mad but I love the weird comedy, and I even enjoyed the curry episode. Also, the clipshow episodes are, with one exception, pretty important, so don't be tempted to skip those!

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11.02.2013, 07:02 AM

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I'll definitely keep going with it as the black rose series seems to be a lot more interesting. I need to be in the right frame of mind to watch it though. I had a headache yesterday and was in a grumpy mood so I only watched ep.15. Thanks for the fairytale analogy Arren, it helps to watch it if I can put aside my preference for reality-based stories and let the fantasy stuff just flow over me without worrying about it.

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11.02.2013, 09:50 AM

Mush
Baron

Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
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quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
the twist at the end of Jury's episode

I have to admit, that caused me to clap my hands and jump up in the air.

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11.02.2013, 11:00 AM

Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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quote:
Originally posted by arren18
Also, the clipshow episodes are, with one exception, pretty important, so don't be tempted to skip those!

Yes. Episode 24 is pretty skippable. Even as a huge fan of the show, I didn't bother with it the second time around.

But.

You really really REALLY don't want to skip Episode 33. It might seem like "let's summarize the past few episodes" filler at first but it's not.

Gah. I wish I could say more.

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 11.02.2013, 12:18 PM.

11.02.2013, 12:18 PM

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quote:
Originally posted by Mush
quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
the twist at the end of Jury's episode

I have to admit, that caused me to clap my hands and jump up in the air.

Which ep number is that? I think I ought to re-watch it as I think I missed something.

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11.02.2013, 12:53 PM

Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
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I'm pleased to hear you're enjoying the Black Rose arc! Because of its place in the overall storyline it seems that some people are a bit hard on it, but I really liked the way it reveals more about people who were previously just background characters. Also it features (possibly) my favourite duel. I won't say who's in it though.

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11.02.2013, 01:08 PM

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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
Which ep number is that? I think I ought to re-watch it as I think I missed something.

Episode 7. My brother missed the twist the first time he watched it, too, so it's quite possible...although, not really if you're paying attention.

Just make sure you watch the episode all the way to the end.

It's a pretty important plot point in the series overall, so, just in case, I'd go back and watch the last few scenes again. Then watch the whole episode to marvel at how brilliantly constructed it is. The way it leads you to believe one thing, while dropping contradictory hints all over the place, is quite clever.

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 11.02.2013, 06:53 PM.

11.02.2013, 06:52 PM

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HUGE SPOILERS EP 7

Jury is in love with the girl and not her male fencing partner. It was a miracle that enabled Utena to defeat her in the swordfight, though she doesn't believe in miracles.

I recall the love triangle thing from when I first saw it and right from the very first scene knew that Jury loved the girl and not the man. Don't ask me how, I just did. Maybe that's why it didn't stick in my mind as being clever or convoluted.

quote:
Originally posted by Mush
I have to admit, that caused me to clap my hands and jump up in the air.

This comment is why I'm still puzzled. I'm having trouble putting the above reaction with the revelation of the final scene with the photo in the locket.

Did I miss something?

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 11.03.2013, 02:19 PM.

11.02.2013, 11:08 PM

Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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SPOILERS EP 7

quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
I recall the love triangle thing from when I first saw it and right from the very first scene knew that Jury loved the girl and not the man. Don't ask me how, I just did. Maybe that's why it didn't stick in my mind as being clever or convoluted.

Okay, I don't think you missed anything. It's also not too surprising that you figured it out: in fact, the episode is constructed in such a way that all evidence points to Jury being in love with Shiori, and not the dude. But tons of people still assume she's in love with her fencing partner (myself included, the first time I saw the episode) because of assumptions about the kind of show they're watching.

What I find clever about the episode is the way it exposes the viewer's tendency to ignore all evidence that contradicts their preconceived notions (and the evidence is quite blatant in this case). If you're an observant viewer and figure out the trick right away, I'm sure the impact is greatly diminished. But for me, and the many people who don't see the twist coming, I think the episode helps establish that Utena is a self-aware show willing to play against the shoujo love triangle cliches that the audience expects. A lot of the show is written like that, to deliberately subvert expectations, although if you go into the show expecting it to be bizarre and boundary-pushing, you might not be quite as surprised by the twists. I think it's still quite possible to enjoy it, though.

I don't find Mush's reaction that strange. It sounds like she was surprised? Or maybe just excited to see a canon lesbian character?

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 11.03.2013, 06:46 PM.

11.03.2013, 12:47 AM

Registration Date: 04.08.07
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Whoooops, double post.

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 11.03.2013, 12:54 AM.

11.03.2013, 12:53 AM

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EPISODE SEVEN SPOILERS

Speaking of twists in that episode, I really liked how the duel ended - or the duel in general for that matter. It showed how much Utena relies on luck or sudden increase in ability to win, by giving her an opponent that completely outclasses her. In the end, it was (appropriately) a miracle that won the fight.

By the way, as Saddles and Mush progress through the show I feel like there could be a lot of spoilers. Should we maybe have some kind of policy on that? I'd love for other people to want to watch it too, and it would be a shame if they know about major plot events in advance because of this thread...

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Post last edited by arren18 on 11.03.2013, 09:39 PM.

11.03.2013, 02:20 AM

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Orphic could edit the first post to announce that the thread contains enjoyment-wrecking spoilers; and the thread title as well. That might help.

Each of us could write SPOILER as well in huge font at the head of a post that includes them.

Maybe we should have watched this show in our ill-fated anime club threads? Pity we didn't.

************************************

I'm still enjoying the show, I'm not going to stop. I am a much older person though and the target audience I think is far younger than I, so I've gone through all the teen angst way in the past; that may be another reason why its not touching me so strongly - it may be also a reason why Evangelion did touch me strongly - child/parent problems as well as the deceptions of adults. At that particular stage in my life that show's issues connected with me depply while Utena's issues connect less so.

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11.03.2013, 10:11 AM

Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 10665

Yeah, adding warnings to individual posts is probably easiest, maybe with specific things like EPISODE 26 SPOILER (I forget what episode 26 is) so people are still safe reading things about what they've already seen.

Maybe we can put major spoilers in a hard-to-read colour too?

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11.03.2013, 01:26 PM

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I've added spoiler header warnings to my posts that contain them.

EDIT: LOL, Nanami's cow-bell episode. Now that was funny. A take on The Emperor's New Clothes I assume?

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Post last edited by Saddletank on 11.03.2013, 05:39 PM.

11.03.2013, 02:19 PM

Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
Orphic could edit the first post to announce that the thread contains enjoyment-wrecking spoilers; and the thread title as well. That might help.

Great ideas. But, um, how do I change the thread title? Just editing the first post doesn't seem to let me do it.

quote:
I'm still enjoying the show, I'm not going to stop. I am a much older person though and the target audience I think is far younger than I, so I've gone through all the teen angst way in the past; that may be another reason why its not touching me so strongly - it may be also a reason why Evangelion did touch me strongly - child/parent problems as well as the deceptions of adults.

It's true that Utena doesn't have much to do with the child/parent relationship. But the deception of adults, on the other hand...

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 11.03.2013, 06:52 PM.

11.03.2013, 06:52 PM

Registration Date: 09.28.06
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quote:
Originally posted by Orphic Okapi how do I change the thread title? Just editing the first post doesn't seem to let me do it.

When you edit that post does a field come up on top that gives the post title?

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11.03.2013, 07:16 PM

Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335

I double checked to make sure. Nope, nothing.

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11.03.2013, 07:20 PM