  |
| Author |
|
The Cheshire Cat
Kodama
Registration Date: 08.10.07
Location:
Posts: 15 |
|
|
Assuming I'm allowed to add to Okapi's post, the portal that takes Sophie to the past is, as far as I see it, the black-colored portal that the characters are discussing about mysteriously throughout the movie.
I could be wrong, its been a long time since I've seen that movie.
|
|
 08.10.2007, 10:56 AM |
  
|
Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
|
|
I thought the black portal was the one Howl used to try to spy on / stop the war?
__________________
Post last edited by Mush on 08.10.2007, 12:28 PM.
|
|
| 08.10.2007, 12:28 PM |
|
Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
|
|
I thought the black door led to his secret harem. That's why he's always so exhausted when he comes back.
__________________
 I like tea!
|
|
| 08.10.2007, 01:06 PM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
@Orphic Okapi - its been a good while since I watched it too and some of your questions in response to my answers are good ones. Right now I don't have all the answers (who does?).
I'm not surprised the movie isn't to your taste. It isn't to mine either. There are a lot of fans of the movie but I suspect a good proportion of these are female Howlfangirls (or fanboys... whatever floats your boat) and not what I'd call critical movie viewers. I think generally you are fair to be critical of the movie. It isn't acclaimed in the reviewing circles to be Miyazaki on a good day. I don't especially like it, I do though love a good love story which this movie delivers in spades (it's one redeeming feature).
The heart is a symbol of course and not a real heart (Howl would be an eensy bit dead if his heart were in Calcifer). When Suleiman attacks Sophie and him (sorry I can't recall if she attacks Sophie and Howl interposes himself and defends her or she attacks Howl and Sophie being adjacent is just a collateral victim) the small star people are (I think) magical creatures or demons summoned by wizards as part of their spell casting. These ones forming a ring around Howl and Sophie begin to hypnotize her or magically attack her in some way - IIRC Howl warns her not to look(?). I think they are demons of some kind as we see them again in Howl's childhood where they fall as stars, burst and run across the water near Sophie. Its my understanding that its one of these creatures that Howl catches and swallows (you'll see he speaks with it before swallowing it - this is his pact that gives his heart to Calcifer and Calcifer becomes his slave and provides the power to operate the Castle).
So Calcifer is (symbolically but not medically) Howls heart. Because of his pact with Calcifer Howl was able to build his castle and perfom great magic making him the most powerful wizard after Suleiman and perhaps even her equal. However it was (in a sense) a pact with the devil because without his heart Howl could not grow up and mature. He acts like a child at the beginning of the movie and does all sorts of silly things like throwing tantrums and his room is full of rather childish looking devices to keep the Witch of the Waste away from him (and his heart). She loves him - he doesn't love her. There must be some encounter in their past that we don't see.
The bizarre 'attack' by Suleiman on Howl/Sophie must be a magical attack - she is a powerful wizard after all and so is he. Yes the movie doesn't tell us its magic but we get plenty of clues (the dancing golden figures for one). The movie here is using an almost first person technique and plunging you into a rather psychadelic world as though you the viewer are caught up in the spell battle. Its a nice device and I think it works well - its a device the film writer can't easily explain, the viewer either undestands the trick or just has to go with the flow of the visuals without understanding it. (I spend most of Spirited Away in that condition even today: a good example is the train ride with the shadow people - nothing is explained about who they are and yet most Ghibli critics will cite this scene as one of the highlights of the movie. The Suleiman/Howl battle is a similar highlight, a great visual feast which means little to the viewer. Why the technique works beautifully in SA and not in HMC I can't say.)
As to Sophie and the removal of Calcifer from the Castle and all that jazz - culminating in its destruction I would need to watch the movie again.
As to Sophie going into Howl's past this is explained in her final comment as the ground opens and swallows her "Look for me in your future." So once we reach that point we know that his meeting her in the alley where she was being accosted by the two soldiers right at the beginning of the movie isn't a chance encounter. It was meant to happen, Howl was probably looking for her since he'd met her in his childhood.
Phew! Without sitting down with the movie and the pause button of my remote and a pen and notebook I think that's all I can give you for the moment.
I've compared this movie to SA a couple of times and I'm happy with that comparison. At first the two both seem a bit random, very confusing and visually stunning. You do just have to watch both a few times for the meanings to begin to 'click'. Why Howl doesn't for you, only you can answer that. Personally I hate Grave of the Fireflies, I think its a horrible movie and will never watch it again - far too depressing to be entertainment. Yet most of the rest of the planet thinks it's Takahata's finest moment if not one of the finest moments in anime. They're almost certainly right, it's just that I can't agree with them. Each to his own I guess.
If Howl isn't your cup of tea and you're still here putting up with my blatherings then you're more open-minded toward HMC than I'll ever be toward GotF.
Finally here is the text of a post of mine I made on this forum some months ago when I first watched it - some of what I say here may be a bit raw but I put it here again without edits.
quote:
I'm no Howl expert, only watched it three times so far (once in English, twice in Japanese), so what I write may be wrong. When I first watched the film I hated it, it felt shallow compared to other Miyazaki work and the English dub is poor IMHO (Calcifer is a total jerk, sounds like a cheap Disney character in the dub). However I watched it again in Japanese hoping for a better film and second time around I think I "got" it.
The spell only affects her waking appearance, which is why she is 18 again when Howl sees her sleeping (what a beautiful moment on film, eh? Oooh, that made goosebumps on my flesh it was so romantic) and in the dream sequence. But there's more to it than that...
The film is a love story: in fact it's all about all different kinds of love, and several love stories at the same time -
First, the Witch of the Waste has a tragic unrequited love for Howl - and is so demented by it that she would literally 'steal his heart' if she could, regardless of how much damage that would do to her, her lover and those around her. She puts her spell on Sophie so that she's an old crone and Howl won't want to love her, an example of the worst kind of bitchiness that jilted lovers often demonstrate.
Second, Howl has no purpose in life, he's a drifter, doing what he likes, hurting women and being thoroughly selfish and childish. Then he meets Sophie and he is suddenly motivated to protect her through love. The hell he goes through to stop the war he goes through willingly to defend Sophie.
Third, there is a sort of interdependence kind of love between Howl and Calcifer as well I think, although that one is a bit subtle and I need to watch the film a few more times before I can be sure. When Calcifer is set free at the end he finds he would rather be a slave with Howl than be a free agent without him.
Fourth, Turnip the scarecrow responds to the kindness Sophie shows him. He falls in love with her and at the end her kiss breaks the spell on him. He departs, prepared to get his father the king to stop the war. Love can start wars and it can stop them.
Fifth, Markl falls in love with Sophie in as much that he welcomes her into their family as a mother figure.
Sixth, and most important, Sophie falls in love with Howl (and who wouldn't?). The spell the Witch of the Waste puts on Sophie can only be broken by true love. When you see Sophie changing her age constantly in the film, watch carefully those scenes again and see her interactions with Howl. The scene where he takes her into his garden is for me the highlight of the movie, Sophie turns into a gorgeous angel there.
There may be other love affairs in the story too - I'm sure Calcifer loves Sophie as well in his own kind of way.
This is a film that seems simple at first, and I was very disappointed when I first saw it, but with each rewatching it grows on you.
BTW, Orphic Okapi, I like your username, what does it mean?
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 08.10.2007, 01:07 PM.
|
|
| 08.10.2007, 01:06 PM |
|
Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
|
|
It doesn't really mean anything in particular--"orphic" means "mystical," and an "okapi" is an African animal that looks like a cross between a zebra and a giraffe.
So, essentially it means "mystical zebra/giraffe." I have no idea how I came up with it, but it stuck with me. Most people who know me well on the internet call me Double O, but they came up with that on their own.
Anyway, thanks for that analysis. It was very informative an insightful. I'll have to watch it again soon to see if I get more out of it.
__________________
I like tea!
|
|
| 08.10.2007, 02:00 PM |
|
Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
|
|
Just a few mistakes I'd like to point out.
quote:
Howl also magically transforms the interior of the Castle to seem more like the hat shop because he loves Sophie and wants her to feel more at home.
Actually, that IS the hat shop. Just in case you hadn't realises, the previous occupant i.e. her mother, had left after her recent marriage.
quote:
"she finds some random doorway into the past" - Its not some random doorway, its the Castle's magic doorway/portal. Without the magic coloured rotating lock mechanism working, entering it allows the mind of the traveller to be taken where they wish or need to be taken. Sophie is struggling to help and understand Howl so the portal takes her to a place where she can do that - to his past.
All four doors have a set location; you can't choose where to go. That fourth door just happens to be Howl's personal space, which in this case, is his childhood memories.
I'd talk about the novel, but that doesn't concern the movie.
quote:
Yes, but what does it mean if you don't have a heart? The idea of having your heart removed recurs throughout the movie, but it's never really explained at all. Clearly it doesn't make you emotionless, as both Howl and the Witch of the Waste display emotion. So what does it actually do to you? And what is with the Witch of the Waste trying to get Howl's heart? I assumed that the heart was supposed to symbolize his love, since she loved him at some point--but then how is Howl able to love Sophie? I don't know, it just seems awfully confusing to me.
Actually, it was mentioned by Calcifer. At the point where Sophie asked Calcifer to move the castle, he mentioned that he needed something from her as a contract, and requested for her heart as the payment for the contract. We later also see young Howl and calcifer when they first met, and Howl spewed out his heart.
quote:
The heart is a symbol of course and not a real heart (Howl would be an eensy bit dead if his heart were in Calcifer).
Real enough. It was the contract that binded Calcifer to Howl, is how Calcifer stayed alive, is how Howl commands control over Calcifer.
I don't think it was explained in the movie, which was one of the holes I mentioned. Howl made a contract with Calcifer as he was falling from the sky as a shooting star: to live longer in exchange for his servitude. Basically, Calcifer cannot live without the heart (nor Howl, of course), while Howl cannot control Calcifer if he were to take back his heart, as that was the payment for the contract.
The ending, as seen in the movie, was concluded when Sophie, who actually has the power to bring life to objects, gave Calcifer a thousand years to live without Howl's heart, in order to save Howl. (Admittedly, the situation is a little different in the novel, but matters not here.)
__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
|
|
| 08.10.2007, 10:30 PM |
|
Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
|
|
But what about my secret harem theory . . . ? 
__________________
I like tea!
|
|
| 08.10.2007, 11:08 PM |
|
Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
|
|
Someone stole it and made it into an H game called Shuffle!
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
|
|
| 08.11.2007, 04:05 AM |
|
jim222
Kodama
Registration Date: 07.25.07
Location: Scotland, Erskine (Near Glasgow)
Posts: 30 |
|
|
I love this MOVIE!!
__________________
|
|
| 08.14.2007, 07:20 PM |
|
Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1335 |
|
|
How informative.
__________________
I like tea!
|
|
| 08.14.2007, 08:30 PM |
|
Omis
Tanuki
Registration Date: 06.03.07
Location: Teesdale, UK
Posts: 99 |
|
|
I thoroughly enjoyed HMC and it was the film that got me into collecting the set so, in that sense it's an important one for me. However after seeing so many other Ghibli films now I'm not 'as' impressed. Yes its still very good but I don't feel as moved by it as I used to.
Although I love romance stories I find HMC just that little bit too cheesey in parts. Don't get me wrong romance is good but lines like "a heart is a heavy burden"..... No I cringed at that bit.
Having said that one part I did find very moving was where Sophie says she's not pretty and she envies Howl. That was very well done.
__________________
Rainy days! ...Cloudy days, or sunny days...which do you like? 
|
|
| 08.19.2007, 12:25 PM |
|
Kazegami
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 08.19.07
Location: a world of pure imagination
Posts: 7025 |
|
|
This was the very first Miyazaki film I ever saw! It made me fall in love with all Miyazaki's work. Come to think of it, it made me fall in love with Howl too  . I definetely think this was one of Miyazaki's best films, I loved the whole thing. Sophie was acted so brilliantly, and it was really impossible not to love Howl. If only guys were that hansome in real life. *sigh* I got the book a few months after I saw the film. I kind've wish i hadn't, because all I could think about for a while was how different they were. But hey, don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved the book, it was hilarious, I'd recommend it to anyone! This may be me favourite Miyazaki film of them all. It's definetely between Howl's Moving Castle and Princess Mononoke.
__________________
My Anime List
|
|
| 08.19.2007, 03:17 PM |
|
Cronhole
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 08.19.07
Location:
Posts: 3 |
|
|
| 08.19.2007, 07:28 PM |
|
illbeyourether
Kodama
Registration Date: 01.02.08
Location:
Posts: 20 |
|
|
Howl's Moving Castle is by far my favorite Ghibli film.
(Far and above all others)
You cleared up the vast majority of problems people had with it very well Roarkiller! Thanks!
The first time I watched HMC I really enjoyed it but I didnt fully understand it. I read a bit about it on Wikipedia and read the FAQ at nausicaa.net http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/howl/ and then re-watched it and found that every part of the movie was infact important and pertained to the plot.
Once you figure out how each piece belongs in the movie (albeit it can take some research) you can see how you can in fact conclude many of the things from actually just watching the movie and not going to outside sources.
The problem is some things (such as characters talking in the background - which many people dont pay attention too) seem minor of the surface but contain information that is crucial for understanding and appreciating the film.
I really recommend anyone that did not understand/thought HMC was pointless to go and read a bit about it and then re-visit it and really follow along.
You will find that it is in fact alot more complex then other Ghibli films (for example, Kiki's delivery service - which is so damn straightforward you know exactly whats coming next...) and is very deep and meaningful!
Goodluck!
(Ps. Im new so 'Hi!')
|
|
| 01.02.2008, 03:09 AM |
|
harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
|
|
| 01.02.2008, 03:17 AM |
|
illbeyourether
Kodama
Registration Date: 01.02.08
Location:
Posts: 20 |
|
|
^ it was also the first Ghibli movie I saw.
Do you think that affected the way you looked at the other Ghibli movies you saw after that?
I personally thought they where going to be more epic in proportion.
(Valley of the Wind lived up to that idea, but Kiki's didnt for example)
|
|
| 01.02.2008, 08:29 PM |
|
harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
|
|
i never expect things from stuff so anything i watch exceeds my expectations.
besides,even without epic stuff a ghibli movie can be good.
cept grave of the fireflies, i hate that movie...
__________________
http://harmony-of-mar.deviantart.com/
|
|
| 01.02.2008, 08:32 PM |
|
Forgotten-Life9
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 01.03.08
Location:
Posts: 3 |
|
|
I think howl's moving castle is my favorite 1 out of all of the collection
but im not sure  cause i love them all
|
|
| 01.03.2008, 05:57 PM |
|
harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
|
|
| 01.04.2008, 05:26 AM |
|
Kazegami
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 08.19.07
Location: a world of pure imagination
Posts: 7025 |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by harmony-of-mar
howl is the reason i discovered anime.
Same here harmony! I am forever indebted to it. Without HMC, I would never have discovered the joys of Fruits Basket, or the cuteness of OHSHC.
|
|
| 01.04.2008, 05:43 AM |
|
|
|
|
|
Online Ghibli
Ghibli Tavern is powered by WoltLab, hosted by Teragon Networks
|
|
,BUT spirted away drew me first to Ghibli 
. Howls only disappointing piece was the witch of the waste ,could stand her >
.
