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Roarkiller
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| Gedo Senki: An analysis (warning: spoilers) |       |
With the film festivals in the UK and after a year of waiting, I decided to get my own copy of GS- online, that is, since I'll only spend cash on something I know is good. Which means I watched a version that's different (sorta) than what you guys have watched. The sound was over half a second too fast, and the subs were sadly poor. Nonetheless, I adapt easily, and knowing japanese is a plus for me.
To the movie then.
Brief Summary:
The land of Earthsea is plagued by dying crops and cattle. Everywhere, villages have been turned into nothing but wastelands, and only the cruelest and vilest survive by making a profit out of others, sometimes literally. Arren is a young prince, forced to leave his land and wander, and in the wilderness he chances upon Haitaka, a wizard, and learns about the collapsing of the balance of the world.
~End
The fact that Gorou took a lot of ideas from his ideas from his father's works, and the fact that "Shuna no Tabi" was his guide, was no secret. However, the movie makes both facts glaring. It's so obvious to even tell apart which are ideas from his father's works, and which are his own (haven't read the books, so no comment on those).
-Opening
Apart from the opening scene, and alterations to fit the Earthsea story, the beginning was taken straight out from Shuna no Tabi, all the way down to slave trading. Fortunately, it serves a purpose of telling for far gone the human race is, so it's forgivable. Still, plagiarism is bad.
-Plot/Storyline
Overall, the plot and storyline was credible enough, although at times it was hazy as to what exactly the story was, and where it was going. The plot was strong, given the magical setting. The explanation for Arren's fears and his doings were, however, explained too late in the movie. While a little suspense is a good idea, Gorou made the unfortunate mistake of causing his "little problem" almost a forgettable thing, allowing no build-up of tension nor much support from the other characters. The opposite is true for Therru though; given her late onscreen appearance and supposed nature, the explanation and timing was perfect.
-Character development
There seem to have been a mismatch. The bad guys get the best character development while the good guys were lacking. Granted, Arren's nature was clear, but like I said, it was poorly explained. Therru had the best for the good guys (except for the last part, which looked like a mismatch). Haitaka barely had any character development, and Tenar seemed more like an afterthought. Only Lord Cubo and, uh, Hare (weird, lol) had good development. It was clear that Hare was a greedy megalomaniac with clear characteristics of an underling who enjoyed being in company with Lord Kubo, despite the consequences. The Lord, while breathing an air of mystery, slowly revealed her true form as the movie progresses.
-Soundtrack
It's sad that Gorou wasn't part of this, because the music really shines through. Unfortunately, the songs didn't for me. Maybe it was because I already heard the song about a million times before, but the both of Teshima Aoi's songs in the movie fell short of expectations, although not entirely her fault. Therru's Song was plagued by bad directing, while The Song of Time was plagued by a bad sound crew and IMHO average singing.
-Animation
Nothing much to say here. Gorou's decision to use old-style was never an issue, that much I can confidently say. However, this is from ghibli, famous for their animation quality, and I'm sorry to say that they are severely lacking here. The quality is parallel to that of TCR; both suffer from the usual animation wonders that has been the trademark fo ghibli's movies. Still, it's redeemable in the fact that only those who actually look for the subtleties will realize how true this is, while the lesser man will probably barely notice this.
-Directing
Miyazaki Hayao walked out of the cinema barely halfway through the movie, and I can't blame him. Gorou's lack of experience was glaring throughout the movie, and I was a director, even I would be displeased. Scene transitions, emotional scenes, cinematography, script... you name it, I found fault with all of them, and it'll take a separate post to list even half of them and why they are at fault. I'll just list one of them: Therru's Song scene.
Upon returning from from a day's work, Arren went to look for Therru and found her at the meadows. He called her name once without response. Another time, same thing. He then started to walk towards her, when Therru started to sing. Arren starts to weep, and as Therru finishes, she turns to look at him as if she knew he was there all along. Scene change, Arren told Therru about his situation.
This is, theoretically, a great scene. But it isn't. If Therru's song was supposed to be a message to Arren, it was poorly directed. If she did it on a whim, it was still bad. The cinematography was bad, for one. For choice one, she could've waited until Arren got closer, or at least have the camera focus on Arren while he's climbing the knoll, looking down (human psyche dictates that a person will almost always look down when walking up an incline). For choice two, Arren could've been further away, and shouldn't have called out to Therru yet.
Therru later proves to have known that Arren was near her, adding salt to the wound.
The second problem was bigger. Before this scene, Therru HATED Arren, and avoided him. Yet, without any development whatsoever, they suddenly sat down together and talked like as though they had known each other for ages. Remember, THERRU HATED ARREN. And Tenar had mentioned earlier that she VERY rarely spoke nicely to any stranger, let alone one she hates.
An extra scene was sorely missed here, and could've made all the difference to the movie.
And of course, there's the burning question of how Therru could turn into a dragon, and what the connection to the story was, if at all.
-----
Overall, for a ghibli movie, this puts it in the same rung as TCR and HMC. A mixture of both, in fact. TCR suffers from a lack of quality, or what I like to call "anime syndrome", while HMC suffers from directing problems IMO (yes, I am saying that Miyazaki Hayao directed this one badly). GS suffers from both a lack of quality and a lack of proper directing.
If you're a ghibli fan or an anime fan, then yes, I would of course recommend it. If you're a casual watcher, I'd say watch it, but it's your choice. If you're the type who thinks that Spiderman is the best movie ever, then sorry, go look some place else. If you're the type who are looking for high quality movies, then may I introduce you to Spirited Away instead of this.
Watch it if it's on the cinema, but only buy the DVD if you're a big fan or a completist. Or if you have no other way of watching it, obviously.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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 07.15.2007, 12:40 AM |
   
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Spungwa
Tanuki
Registration Date: 09.21.06
Location: UK
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I went to see Tales from Earthsea 2 days ago in the cinema. Unfortunately it was an english dub and not a subtitled version, although the voice acting was not as bad as most anime dubs.
I agree Tales from Earthsea was far from being a shining example of the brilliant work ghibli has and can produce.
I read 4 earthsea book when i was a kid, but didnt remember much as it was 20 years ago. Some of it came back me. Tales from Earthsea was set after the 4 books i had read. I remembered about Sparrowhawk (Ged) becoming the Arch Mage and him helping the woman out of the Tombs. But for people that dont know anything about the Earthsea world the whole True Name thing (which is a huge part of the books and way magic works) was only briefly described. This reduced considerably the impact of when Arren and Therru tell eachother their true names. As in the Earthsea world your true name is your most prized possession. By knowing the true name of something you can control it and/or see it for what it really is. No magician can harm you if you know their true name for you will see through everything they do.
I do reserve the right to change my mind as some movies take a few viewing to truly understand and enjoy them, but unfortunately i dont think this will be the case.
As for the Therru dragon thing, i also have no idea what that was all about, i can only assume that she is a dragon????
This film may be much better and make much more sense if you have read the book, I'd definitely recommend the first 4 books, i remember really enjoying them, and considering i was a kid that really didnt read much that is very good.
But as Roarkiller said, imagine most people on these forum we want to watch it regardless 
Spungwa
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| 08.09.2007, 06:29 AM |
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Spungwa
Tanuki
Registration Date: 09.21.06
Location: UK
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Interestingly i did a quick search on amazon and in the editorial reviews part it says
quote:
If you have never read an Earthsea book, this collection isn't the place to start, as the author points out in her thoughtful foreword; begin with A Wizard of Earthsea. If you insist on starting with Tales of Earthsea, read the foreword and the appended "Description of Earthsea" before proceeding to the five stories (three of which are original to this book).
Which kinda agrees with with me that this story does not give you enough background the Earthsea world to stand alone.
Spungwa
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| 08.09.2007, 06:35 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
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Like Howl, and like almost all movies based on books, Earthsea is best watched without having knowledge of Le Guin's books. Enjoy it (or otherwise) as a stand-alone story.
If you know Le Guin's books you're probably at a disadvantage to those who don't when watching Earthsea.
Its a fact that no movie is going to be as good as the book(s) its based on.
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Post last edited by Saddletank on 08.09.2007, 06:59 AM.
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| 08.09.2007, 06:57 AM |
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Spungwa
Tanuki
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Well i wasn't really expecting it to be as good as the books, but as i say i dont really remember the books, and i have never read the book this film is based on.
Its more that i think the film needed to explain a bit more about world in which it was set.
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| 08.09.2007, 10:02 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
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Hm, I understand what you're saying. Of course movie appreciation, like any art appreciation is very subjective. I agree that not a great deal of the world was explained but I'm quite an intuitive person, and someone who's happy to go with the flow and wait for the blanks in a puzzle/story to be filled in later (or even filled in by myself on the drive home from the theatre) so the lack of background detail wasn't a concern to me.
When you think about it you are not given that much world detail in Laputa or Howl either. I think its a deliberate modern style of many forms of storytelling and shouldn't be a criticism of Earthsea specifically.
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| 08.09.2007, 10:11 AM |
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Spungwa
Tanuki
Registration Date: 09.21.06
Location: UK
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I do see your point about Howl's and Laputa, but then in those at least you were shown who the characters were. For example you were told (by implication) Howl was a powerful wizard by the way that his house could move around and be in many places at once.
In laputa you were told that the girl (cant remember her name off the top of head) was special by the way she can fall from the sky and be saved by her amulet.
Sparrowhawk is supposed the most powerful mage in the whole world. Just by naming him the Archmage does not explain this really. It was explained that he was only using magic when neccessary) but they could have gone to a short 30 second flash back or something showing an exploit from this earlier life revealing his true power. Or even just a flash back to him in the tombs using all this magic. Would have easy been put in when they are thrown in the dungeon and she says this reminds me of the tombs. It really going back the roarkillers point that many of the characters were not really developed during the progress of the story. I dont think the same could be said of Laputa and Howls.
You know no more about Sparrowhawk at the end of the movie than you do at the beginning.
I just think with maybe 10 minutes more of scenes, at the most probably less, explaining who these people are and their place in the earthsea world the movie would have made much more sense.
Spungwa
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| 08.09.2007, 10:53 AM |
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Saddletank
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Yeah, I concede your point. I've already decided Earthsea is in the lower tier of Ghibli movies anyway 
Lets hope the next one by Miyazaki doesn't disappoint.
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| 08.09.2007, 12:15 PM |
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jim222
Kodama
Registration Date: 07.25.07
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umm......Howls moving castle was amazing actually. This movie was good but not as good as howl. And how dare you compare this film to the cat returns that was a horrible movie! This was not! Your problem is you look for flaws where as I sit down and watch the movie for a movie, not comparing it to the books or any other ghibli.
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| 08.09.2007, 02:37 PM |
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Artoo
Warawara
Registration Date: 07.19.07
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
Its a fact that no movie is going to be as good as the book(s) its based on.
Er.. is it? How so? 
I seem to have enjoyed Tales From Earthsea more than you or Roarkiller, yet I've read the books so I'm not sure I can agree with your point there... could just be me though, although I read Howl's Moving Castle before I saw the flm of that and I loved both, for different reasons. I felt as though having read the books I did at least remember a couple of things from them that made the gaps in the backstory (of which I would concede there were too many in Earthsea my opinion) less annoying.
I'd personally place it as an 'inbetweeny' Ghibli film - pretty good even if it had enough wrong with it to stop it ranking alongside any of Miyazaki Senior's work. Saying that, I did think it was very impressive debut film for Goro as director, and if he'd had something less ambitious to deal with maybe the slight flaws the film does have would have been easier to overcome.
I totally agree with the point Spungwa made: "they could have gone to a short 30 second flash back or something" - I think that sums up my feelings on almost all the deficiencies I found in the story, it was like they had made a four-hour film that they'd cut out lots of flashbacks that would have explained and illustrated all the things that gets mentioned in a throw-away line beautifully!
Animation /visuals -wise, I think much of the film is jaw-droppingly beautiful. I think I'd have liked to have seen a little more attention to detail in places (more texture on the dragons for a start, maybe some more moving background stuff, it felt a little static sometimes), but overall I think it was a beautiful film that achieved a lot considering what they were doing.
I think if they'd spent another year and twice as much money on it, and Hayao not Goro had been director, it might have been a masterpiece. Whilst it isn't that, I certainly don't rate it as a failure by any means.
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| 08.10.2007, 04:14 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
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quote:
Originally posted by Artoo I think if they'd spent another year and twice as much money on it, and Hayao not Goro had been director, it might have been a masterpiece.
I agree, but you could say that of any so-so movie.
I've never seen a movie based on a book that was as good, I don't know how that can possibly be so, seeing as the book is 'perfection' - its what the author intended, so how any other telling of the story by a third party can reach that pinnacle... well, words fail me. It's simply a given.
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| 08.10.2007, 04:59 AM |
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OnYourMark
Warawara
Registration Date: 08.16.06
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hmm... thanks, roarkiller, very insightful.
i must watch it sometime.
quote:
I've never seen a movie based on a book that was as good, I don't know how that can possibly be so, seeing as the book is 'perfection' - its what the author intended, so how any other telling of the story by a third party can reach that pinnacle... well, words fail me. It's simply a given.
i thought the P Jackson's the lord of the rings sorta... beat the books. but i guess that's because i'm a fan of tolkien's older works, idk. the hobbit and the lotr lost a bit of the lofty majesty of the silmarillion and other old works.
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| 08.10.2007, 05:58 AM |
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Spungwa
Tanuki
Registration Date: 09.21.06
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quote:
I think if they'd spent another year and twice as much money on it, and Hayao not Goro had been director, it might have been a masterpiece. Whilst it isn't that, I certainly don't rate it as a failure by any means
Artoo dont get me wrong i dont consider the movie a failure, just put against most of the other ghibli movies it is bit disappointing. But definitely worth 2 hours of anyones time, unlike many movies i could think of.
Spungwa
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| 08.10.2007, 06:15 AM |
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Artoo
Warawara
Registration Date: 07.19.07
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quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
I've never seen a movie based on a book that was as good, I don't know how that can possibly be so, seeing as the book is 'perfection' - its what the author intended, so how any other telling of the story by a third party can reach that pinnacle... well, words fail me. It's simply a given.
I'd be astonished if you can't even contemplate the possibility that filmmakers can bring enough of their own input to a story and characters - adding, subtracting, reinterpreting, reimagining any book they base a film on to improve it in some cases. You seem to be saying that books are intrinsically superior to films, and that authors always write perfect books... surely that is not your position?
I'd probably agree that most films based on books I've seen are not quite as good as the source material in my opinion, but I don't think that's down to some universal law of nature that says a filmmaker / filmmakers can't possibly ever improve upon a book they base a film on. I found the book Kiki's Delivery Service far less interesting than Miyazaki's film for instance.
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| 08.10.2007, 06:35 AM |
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Artoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Spungwa
Artoo dont get me wrong i dont consider the movie a failure, just put against most of the other ghibli movies it is bit disappointing. But definitely worth 2 hours of anyones time, unlike many movies i could think of.
Spungwa
Replace 'most' with 'many' and I'd agree with every word. I don't rate Tales From Earthsea as one of Ghibli's best films... but there are a few I do think are less good, and not by first-time directors. I just think we ought to all cut Goro Miyazaki some slack, he has a lot to live up to living in the shadow of his father's achievement (at least he didn't 'do an Arren' thank goodness!).
On the basis of TFE I'd happily look forward to another Goro Miyazaki film.
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Let us go forth together in search of the treasure of Lapis Lazuli! Have no fear. Space is deformed on the night of the new moon.
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| 08.10.2007, 06:41 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
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If you take into account that this was Gorou's first work, then I guess you can say that it's better than expected.
That, however, doesn't make it any better than I already said it was.
The book/film comparison is a stupid argument. Each work is to stand on its own, and to compare one to another is like comparing a burger to a chair.
That said, there are several films out that that matches or surpasses the books they were based on. The Ai Yori Aoshi 1st season far outstrips the manga it was based on, and while I have only read a couple of pages from LOTR, I won't deny that the movie trilogy was superbly done.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 08.10.2007, 10:07 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
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I avoided this thread as i was in the processof downloading it and i didnt want to spoil it for myself, and i'l just add my thoughts on this, i think it might take a while, and bear with me if i miss spaces, the laptop is a bit finicky. so in Roarkillers style ill set things up like so:
Opening: well, i didnt read this nausicaa template thingy, so im not going to judge it against it, but it is plagarized which i will get to later. the opening was brief, you get thrown into the action right away with the dragion fight and unless you are familiar with the earthsea series, it might be over your head like it was mine. at last check, the film was about 2 hours, which is 30 minutes shorter than it should have been or much longer and inefficent. there was MAJOR issues i had with this film after the opening. but to actually look at what was there, it was semi-enjoyable. i wanted to see what happened as it continued, it was a bit weak, but its a start, ill cut him slack here.
Plot/Storyline: now here are some issues. i mentioned running time, as it doesnt do enough to get you in the head space of the universe Le Guin created. It just forgets that it is a stand alone film. This might have been a really good middle film, after an entire film for the opening. it always seemed to have me asking, what happened and why did that happen. it was trying to do too many things, with the characters. Arren has his issues, so does Therru, and then the Sparrowhawk-Cob(how it was spelt in the sub i saw, maybe wrong) episode. it doesnt lead up to anything it is like it was supposed to be known from the start of the film. there just seems to be lacking all around. The slavers seemed to be far too involved and shouldnt have been a major function in the plot. It seemed unneccessary.
And my biggest problem is what i believe it was mostly plagarized from and that is princess mononoke. Instead of the industrialization against nature it is people who are reckless against life versus those who value it. It symbolizes this in characters, like mononoke did Therru is San who is trying to show the value of life to Arren who isnt as similar to Ashitaka it is close enough, as he works for the new Eboshi(Cob) in fighting against the enemy of death(the forest) i found it way to similar to PM and it took me half the film to grasp that.
Character Development: I hinted at this in the opening it is very lacking, and wants to assume that the audience already knows all the backstory. I dont want to continually bash the development, but yeah, Goro needs some work there, on a side note in the development, did anyone else think that Therru looked like San and Arren looked like Ashitaka? that was one of the things that sparked the mononoke comparison.
Directing: well, again, hinted on earlier, i tend to be a scatter thought on things like this, but it needed a few more months to smooth the development of the plot and charachers, and needed a smoother pace, with maybe a tad bit more running time, to allow for the extra backstory.
now it may look like i hated the film, i didnt, it wasnt the greatest film by ghibli, but it wasnt the worst(im not to fond on kiki) for a starting point of Goro, it is expected that there were going to be some rought edgeds, but it is unfair for me to pick him apart and say that i am right in all this. this is my opinion, but i didnt hate the film i have seen several stories that arent to sharp, but still enjoyable. i do say, that this SHOULD NOT be the first ghibli you see, i think it is great as the last on to see. so *raises glass* to Goro, take your time, and i think his next work will be much, much better. Thanks for putitng up with my rant
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
Post last edited by Miyrru on 08.12.2007, 12:26 PM.
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| 08.12.2007, 12:25 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
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I'm beginning to think that a viewer should just forget Le Guin entirely and view this movie as a stand alone story. Do that and I think it works tolerably well. I have never read a word by Le Guin and I had no issues with the feeling that the background wasn't properly filled in. Sure some unexplained things went on but I like that in a story, I hate having everything handed to me on a plate. Mystery, confusion, missing pieces of the puzzle are fine for me.
We know that Goro wasn't trying to tell a Le Guin story here, he took chunks from several of her books and reworked parts to fit the story he was telling.
Same with Howl - compare it to the books and you'll be disappointed.
And you can tell I don't agree with Roar on this. This isn't burgers and furniture, its telling a story using two different forms of storytelling. If we're gonna start throwing analogies around, lets at least keep them realistic. It may be a MacDonalds versus a Scottish Angus steak burger but it's all food. Chairs don't enter into it.
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| 08.12.2007, 12:42 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
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i am with you in that i have never read any of the books, but it seemed to just be missing background, like i dont want every little detail, but it could have used a bit of explanation, even like something like the first few minutes of Mononoke, that 10 seconds does alot for the story, it puts you in the head space. the thing with the dragons and the weathershaper-guy didnt introduce much obviously. if i look back, i see it is explaining the lossof balance, but right away i didnt get it. i want it to start obvious and then make me think.
i do think i can compare it to mononoke as it is very similar as to almost be an allegorical copy. and Arren and Therru still look way to much(to me anyways) to Ashitaka and San. not to mention they look a little young for 17. I didnt hate the film, but it is too much like it is someones first work, they are trying to hard. after Goro hopefully gets Hayao to tell him what he didnt like, and if he tries his own idea next time, then i think we can more conclusive to what he is trying to do and understand his headspace a bit more.
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 08.12.2007, 12:51 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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quote:
Originally posted by #1sanfan
i am with you in that i have never read any of the books, but it seemed to just be missing background, like i dont want every little detail, but it could have used a bit of explanation, even like something like the first few minutes of Mononoke, that 10 seconds does alot for the story, it puts you in the head space.
The opening monologue wasn't in the original version of Mononoke. They added it into the English dub because they assumed Western audiences would be confused by all of the references to gods and demons and things.
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 08.12.2007, 06:27 PM.
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| 08.12.2007, 06:26 PM |
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