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DisposableTeen
Calcifer
Registration Date: 12.26.07
Location: Hell.
Posts: 105 |
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 12.27.2007, 06:27 AM |
  
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Loscil
Baron
Registration Date: 08.06.06
Location: The Sun Bear's Den
Posts: 4394 |
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I don't like michael morre so much any more.
He fabricates more and more of what he says.
An inconvienet truth was, fankly, boring.
However, I do like documentaries by werner Herzog, such as
Grizzly Man
Little Dieter needs to Fly
And I completely love the BBC documentary planet earth.
It is absolutely amazing.
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| 12.27.2007, 06:49 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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I think the BBC has made the finest documentaries ever. They did their best work back in the 1970s and 1980s, when they were packed with stunning facts and mind bending data. Today they rely more on 'glam' presenters, pretty visuals, expensive location shooting and rather cheesy dramatisation of events, but their science documentaries are wonderful.
The long running science documentary series "Horizon" is arguably the finest TV series ever made. Problem is they are fewer and fewer good documentaries these days and even Horizon has shifted to BBC4 digital, I guess not enough viewers want to be educated any more  .
I distinctly recall when I was in my late teens or early 20s a wonderful Horizon documentary about superconductivity, which blew my mind it was so chock full of fascinating information. It also, unusual for its time, had a great heavy metal soundtrack. I so wish I had a copy of that show.
Michael Moore merely beats his own personal drum. I wouldn't say his work was documentary arts, more political lobbying for the masses.
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| 12.27.2007, 08:37 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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Used to, back was I was a kid. Then again, I was reading encyclopedias instead The Famous FIve when I was a kid, meh (still haven't, fyi).
Auto Innovations is a nice one, since I'm interested in cars. So is Seconds from Disaster, Criminal Masterminds, MegaStructures, and a few others, mainly from National Geographic, of course.
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 12.27.2007, 10:21 AM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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Hmm, I think this is the first time that I've heard someone say they were a fan of teen school shootings.....typo?
Now the full records of the Milgram experiment used to be on Google video, I'm having a hard time finding it right now but I found that one very interesting. Another one I watched recently was "Shake hands with the devil", I think it's called, and it's basically a documentary about Romeo Dallaire, a french peacekeeper who tried to prevent the events in Rwanda while no one else in the UN or the US bothered to listen to him or help him achieve that.
For something on the lighter side, there used to be a program by the National Geographic called "100 dollar taxi ride" and basically you went around the world from the perspective of the camerman (who made occasional witty comments), shown the sights by taxi drivers from each country. I watched it when I was a kid, it was pretty fun.
Micheal Moore is mostly in the "good message, but bad method" category. For the most part his intentions are good, but the way he goes about making his films, especially Bowling for Columbine, can sometimes be dishonest and that means opponents can easily rip it apart. However, his latest film is better in this regard.
In science, here's a documentary called "The Elegant Universe" which is a good starting point especially for touching on string theory. It's available for free online:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
Post last edited by Theowne on 12.27.2007, 11:35 AM.
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| 12.27.2007, 11:34 AM |
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harmony-of-mar
Baron
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: In the black order cafeteria, eating with allen
Posts: 2635 |
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| 12.27.2007, 06:03 PM |
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Loscil
Baron
Registration Date: 08.06.06
Location: The Sun Bear's Den
Posts: 4394 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Theowne
Micheal Moore is mostly in the "good message, but bad method" category. For the most part his intentions are good, but the way he goes about making his films, especially Bowling for Columbine, can sometimes be dishonest and that means opponents can easily rip it apart. However, his latest film is better in this regard.
Sicko is the one that most　blatantly lies.
There are scenes where he travels to other countries and, as for example in england, and declares how perfect the health system there is.
When, as a matter of fact, it is not.
It might be better than in the USA whedre there is no national health service, but its twisting the truth to his own good.
And I find the guy really really annoying.
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| 12.27.2007, 06:44 PM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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quote:
It might be better than in the USA whedre there is no national health service, but its twisting the truth to his own good.
Actually, he does mention the downsides of their various systems, for example, he refers to the French as "drowning in taxes" while praising their system.
Whereas in an earlier film, he may have simply not mentioned any negatives at all.
So, in a way, improving.
I don't think his point, though, was that the UK system is perfect, since he does visit many different countries. I think his point was that they were all unanimously better than the US.
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| 12.27.2007, 06:59 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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If a person is going to use a nations health care system to illustrate a social or political point, they really need to live in that country for a while, a year minumum and experience that country's healthcare.
Britains NHS is basically broken. In the last 10 years it has drowned in red tape and bureauocracy, too many high level managers soaking up fat slaraies are bleeding the system for no apparent gain, all the decent doctors work perhaps 1 or 2 days a week privately (because it's the only way they can make a decent wage), the nursing staff are STILL woefully underpaid and just about every employer of any worth these days includes a private healthcare scheme in their renumeration package so many people use private healthcare now.
Probably the only part of Britain's NHS that still functions well is the very cutting edge places, the important places, in the operating rooms where I have found staff to be universally excellent. The ward staff and the totally overworked accident and emergency departments are a joke.
And funnily enough it is Britains socialist government that has overseen this slide into destruction. The Labour party created national healthcare in the 1950s and dismantled it again (for reasons most British people don't understand) in the late 90s and 2000s. Now had Michael Moore done his research for Sicko in the 1960s or 1970s then he'd have seen a national free healthcare system to be proud (or depending on your viewpoint, envious) of.
But if Moore used our NHS to illustrate a health system more favourable to that in the USA then I pity the average US citizen, I really do.
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| 12.27.2007, 07:41 PM |
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tariss-of-mar
Ohmu
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: Bega, Australia
Posts: 304 |
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quote:
An inconvienet truth was, frankly, boring.
I accept the fact that you do not like this documentary, so I´m not going to get angry, but it is my favourite documentary, regardless of the fact that it does not state Australia because John Howard (Being the idiotic non-believer he was) did not sign the Kyoto Protocol. It it a moving and powerful film and it highlights the problems that face us in the future. It shows that a fair few of us do care, which is a relief. I once again state that there is no reason not to like it.
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| 12.27.2007, 09:43 PM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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Well, I don't like "an Inconvenient Truth" because I think it doesn't have enough science. But that would probably make it more boring. It also dramatically overstates the issue of sea level rise and understates other consequences of climate change. But I guess you can't have it every way.
I really love documentaries but don't watch them nearly enough. I feel so un-knowledgeable. Political-themed documentaries I've learned to be skeptical of, though they often do make good points. I like the Fog of War, which is basically just a long interview with Robert McNamara, the US Secretary of Defense under Kennedy. He talks about a lot of things, from the firebombing of Japan to the Cuban missile crisis and also the war in Vietnam, and it's just very interesting to see his perspective as someone who was very involved in those events.
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Post last edited by Mush on 12.28.2007, 05:15 AM.
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| 12.28.2007, 05:14 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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Yes, it's rare to have long frank useful interviews with politicians - or senior state servants - transcribed to TV documentaries. I recall a few years back on British TV there was a documentary about, hm, not sure what it was called The Peacekeepers it may have been, but a long section in there was focussed on Kissinger and it changed my view of him and how much plain hard WORK that guy did flying from national leader to national leader during various crises.
I think I mentioned it above, Mushka, that while a lot of science in documentaries is something I enjoy, it doesn't get good ratings so you rarely see it these days, instaed you get some 10 minute dippy dramatisation of a guy in a top hat and frock coat who colud be Lincoln but who is supposed to be Dr Graham Bell running about fretting about assistants spilling acid on his experiments...
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 12.28.2007, 05:26 AM |
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Loscil
Baron
Registration Date: 08.06.06
Location: The Sun Bear's Den
Posts: 4394 |
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Misundersandings.
Im not saying an inconvenient truth was not good.
It just showed things in the wrong way which made it boring.
Have more nature footage, have more interviews, have CGi future scenarios etc.
not just a dude giving a presentation, intercut with scenes of him riding around the country side talking to farmers who say (with a redneck accent) "when I was young, I had a cow", or something like that.
And then he gets the peace nobel prize for that?
Are you serious?
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| 12.28.2007, 09:48 AM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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Scientific information about global warming is available to those who want it, but I think that a documentary about global warming which was too heavily scientific would have been ignored by the majority of the general public, which I think was the audience "Inconvenient Truth" was shooting for. Like it or not, to get more people aware of the problem, it had to be brought to a level that could be understood by the masses.
I do, though, think it's ridiculous that Al Gore got the Nobel peace prize. The last two winners won for trying to prevent nuclear energy from being used for military purposes, and also for developing systems that helped the poor work their way up to success by giving them loans while most banks wouldn't do so. Then Al Gore wins for doing some presentations and a movie about global warming. I respect the purpose, but the Nobel Peace prize? Seems like there are people risking their lives for others out there that deserve it more.
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| 12.28.2007, 11:20 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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I agree completely, the Al Gore award was a travesty of what the Nobel Peace Prize is about. Maybe some money changed hands or something equally peculiar. I know that sort of thing is most unlikely where politicians are concerned but strange stuff happens from time to time.
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Post last edited by Saddletank on 12.28.2007, 01:37 PM.
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| 12.28.2007, 01:37 PM |
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tariss-of-mar
Ohmu
Registration Date: 09.11.07
Location: Bega, Australia
Posts: 304 |
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Even though I liked the movie, I agree that the Nobel Peace award could have gone to someone better. As he once was a politician, I think that fact leaned the win towards him unfairly... It could have gone to a better person.
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I´m a supporter and user of Ubuntu (Linux)
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| 12.29.2007, 12:01 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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Well not necessarily a better person, just - well, someone who'd actually done something concrete that was deserving would be nice.
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| 12.29.2007, 06:47 AM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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Al Gore is brutal. Just plain brutal.
Personally, I do not agree that humans are the main reason that the climate is changing. We have a small role, but we have a role. It is probably just the sun spot cycles that cause some heating. Back in the 70s they were calling for an ice age, so I can see how reliable we have been at predicting stuff. But this is another topic all together.
Al Gore contributed zilch to keeping world peace, or doing something earth shattering that changed us for the better. He made a cheesey documentary, he is as deserving as I am to get one of those things. It is just another thing that has turned into a global popularity contest.
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 12.29.2007, 05:49 PM |
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Seiji
Totoro
Registration Date: 07.29.06
Location: USA
Posts: 968 |
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quote:
Originally posted by #1sanfan
Al Gore is brutal. Just plain brutal.
Personally, I do not agree that humans are the main reason that the climate is changing. We have a small role, but we have a role. It is probably just the sun spot cycles that cause some heating. Back in the 70s they were calling for an ice age, so I can see how reliable we have been at predicting stuff. But this is another topic all together.
Al Gore contributed zilch to keeping world peace, or doing something earth shattering that changed us for the better. He made a cheesey documentary, he is as deserving as I am to get one of those things. It is just another thing that has turned into a global popularity contest.
The Nobel peace prize is sometimes used to bring attention to a cause rather than to honor the most deserving. Take Rigoberta Menchu for example. While both she and Al Gore have certainly done much work towards their respective goals, the reason that they received their awards is because they are both icons of their struggles. Obviously the people who decided to give Al Gore the award did it to promote his cause, rather than to honor his accomplishments as an individual.
As far as the film itself, I didn't find it boring, but well, it's pretty hard to bore me, although, so far Frank Miller adaptations are 2/2 when it comes to boring me. The issue I had with "An Inconvenient Truth" is that so much of the film seemed to be Al Gore talking about how much HE cares about it all. The whole thing came across as very self righteous.
Do I know for sure that we've caused global warming in part or in whole? No, but the scientific community in large seems to think so, and when the scientific community says something collectively, I tend to believe them.
On the health care issue, I haven't seen Sicko, but well, Saddletank's post is very insightful. I think a lot of people are afraid of that happening here. Though, truth be told, socialized medicine isn't really on the political table, in spite of what people may think (in the US). All people want to do is to give government sponsored coverage to people who cannot afford insurance.
Being an American, I've swung through our health system a few times, and well, if you have insurance that will actually cover you, it is all very managable (and top notch too). The problem is that so many people can't afford good insurance, or any insurance at all. Thus, after they get treated, which they do, they have gigantic bills to pay. Basically the issue is that people feel medical services are too expensive in this country.
Post last edited by Seiji on 12.30.2007, 06:31 AM.
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| 12.30.2007, 06:24 AM |
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frigidchill
Totoro
Registration Date: 08.13.07
Location: Staffordshire, England
Posts: 773 |
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OT and on the Global warming issue: I used to think that this was true, you know, Global Warming killing the planet and it's all our fault etc. Until late one night, I watched some program on Channel Four that basically refuted the entire thing. I won't lie, it made a lot of sense and it was less of a show on it and more of an interview with scientists that basically said their names had been put on the list of scientists that support the idea, against their will. Also, our input of carbon emissions is dwarfed by the amount of carbon emissions from the sea and the idea that the sea warming up is a result of carbon emissions is the exact opposite, because the sea warms up, it releases more carbon. Essentially, these results were read the wrong way purely because there is now money in that field of research.
As if that wasn't enough the show was never mentioned after that. Ever. I would of thought this challenge to the theory would of caused someone to defend it, but apparently not. Meh. Maybe I am too cynical.
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| 12.30.2007, 08:19 AM |
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