Ghibli Tavern (http://www.onlineghibli.com/tavern/index.php)
|- Ghibli Discussions (http://www.onlineghibli.com/tavern/board.php?boardid=4)
|-- Japanese culture confusing me yet again (http://www.onlineghibli.com/tavern/threadid.php?boardid=4&threadid=2797)


Posted by Calforsale on 04.13.2011, 03:34 AM:

  Japanese culture confusing me yet again

A few things in some of the ghibli movies confuse me, because i don't understand the cultural reasons behind it.

One main one is the scene in Only Yesterday when they are heading out to the food fair and she runs out without her shoes on and her father hits her! Like comeon! Wow your daughter left the house without shoes on, sure seems like a good excuse to commit child abuse! Im guessing it's something to do with Japanese culture and hygene?


__________________


Posted by arren18 on 04.13.2011, 08:02 AM:

 

I wouldn't know for certain, but I expect this is connected with how in Japan people always remove shoes upon entering the house. So if you go outside without shoes, when you return to the house it's as if you're still in your outside footwear.

Not that I'm saying that's an acceptable reaction. It's not okay to hit your children in any case, but I'd say that's probably the reasoning behind it.


__________________


Posted by Theowne on 04.13.2011, 11:31 AM:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Calforsale
A few things in some of the ghibli movies confuse me, because i don't understand the cultural reasons behind it.

One main one is the scene in Only Yesterday when they are heading out to the food fair and she runs out without her shoes on and her father hits her! Like comeon! Wow your daughter left the house without shoes on, sure seems like a good excuse to commit child abuse! Im guessing it's something to do with Japanese culture and hygene?



The cultural reason is that in most Asian culture (India, Japan, China, and etc.) it is unheard of to wear shoes inside of the house, because outside=dirty, and inside=clean. You do not wear shoes inside the house because you are bringing outside dirt into the inside of the house. For similar reasons, stepping outside barefoot would be exposing what is supposed to be clean (your bare foot, which will then be exposed to the house) to what is dirty.

Now regarding the reaction of the father - the family in "Only Yesterday" was supposed to represent an old-fashioned one, and that was the gut reaction of the father. If it makes it more palatable, you may like to know that in the original comic, he is unable to sleep that night out of guilt.


__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Studio Ghibli reviews, anime film reviews, piano sheet music, etc.


Posted by leonbloy on 04.13.2011, 11:47 AM:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Theowne

In most Asian cultures (India, Japan, China, and etc.) it is unheard of to wear shoes inside of the house, because outside=dirty, and inside=clean. You do not wear shoes inside the house because you are bringing outside dirt into the inside of the house.




I used to read some blog from a woman from Russia living in Spain. She mentioned how hard was for she, getting used to the western custom of walking with your shoes inside your house, specially in the bedroom: it was shocking to her (the same shoes you have used outside, in the streets! you might even have walked over dirt, even over some dog's poop! disgusting!)
I recall a girl in Azumanga Daioh (Osaka?) saying basically the same thing.


__________________
Hernán (Argentina)
My Ghibli guitar covers with tabs -My Ghibli page


Posted by Theowne on 04.13.2011, 12:26 PM:

 

Yes, for someone who grew up with that mindset, suddenly seeing someone walking around inside with shoes on or being expected to do it, just gnaws at a certain obsessive tendency in my mind. I still find the whole idea very uncomfortable even after living in Canada for ~20 years.


__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Studio Ghibli reviews, anime film reviews, piano sheet music, etc.


Posted by Takuto on 04.13.2011, 04:57 PM:

 

I'm an American, and my family has ALWAYS requested that you take your shoes off before coming in. I actually know lots of other families that keep this standard. I'm used to it...


__________________


Posted by dballred on 04.14.2011, 01:18 AM:

 

Japanese children run around outdoors in their bare feet all the time. If their feet are dirty when they get home, they get washed off in the entryway before entering the house. Taeko was in her socks, which would have made it even easier to enter clean. It's not about cleanliness, but Taeko's quarrel over the shoes. Her father snapped at Taeko, hitting her. She added that her father never struck her again.


Posted by Theowne on 04.14.2011, 01:29 AM:

 

I don't think anyone here thinks the scene was meant to make a statement about cleanliness. It was a release for the tension that had been built up in the scene prior.

The reason why stepping outside barefoot would be a catalyst for that release (as the father exclaims) is what is being discussed.


__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Studio Ghibli reviews, anime film reviews, piano sheet music, etc.


Posted by Calforsale on 04.14.2011, 05:49 AM:

 

Yeah i a few of my friends, when i go to their house i have to take off my shoes. I'm fine with it but lol i never remember to do so. So the have to remind me

So it was basically just the tip of the ice-burg? Yeah he did seem pretty guilty after doing it, he looked shocked of himself. It's just you get so close to Taeko san... seing that happen to her, just makes you so upset and angry.


__________________


Posted by supertrf on 04.16.2011, 11:49 AM:

 

I watched the Only Yesterday at Japanese edition.
And I think you are wrong with the meaning of her father's activity.
Her father hit her on her face because the dad was angry of her on her wayward action.


__________________
吾热爱吉卜力,热爱宫崎骏 ¼Œçˆ±åŠ¨æ¼«çˆ±æ˜ ç”»ï¼
中国历史源远流长,泱泱华 夏五千年。
æ–‡æ˜Žåœ£ç«ï¼Œåƒå¤æœªç»è€…ï¼Œæƒ æˆ‘æ— åŒï¼›å’Œå¤©åœ°å¹¶å­˜ï¼Œä¸Žæ ¥æœˆ
同光!
俺は宮崎駿監督のアニメー ション映画が大好き!
ã‚¹ã‚¿ã‚¸ã‚ªã‚¸ãƒ–ãƒªã®æ˜ ç”»ãŒä ¸€ç•ªï¼
えど、アニメとライトノムルはお宅の精神食品が!
日本の文化は最高だ!
I love Chinese culture, Japanese culture and USA culture!
And I think animation is my best enjoyment in which Miyazaki Hayao's movie is the best!


Posted by supertrf on 04.16.2011, 11:55 AM:

 

What's more, have you seen when her father asked her that you don't want to go out to eat with us. She replied no because she was angry with her sister.
But she wanted her father to persuade her to go with them , however, his dad didn't.
And then the dad went out and said let's go.
She was regret at once and wayward as she was that she run out and shouted she wanted to go as well.
So her father became angry for her wayward.


__________________
吾热爱吉卜力,热爱宫崎骏 ¼Œçˆ±åŠ¨æ¼«çˆ±æ˜ ç”»ï¼
中国历史源远流长,泱泱华 夏五千年。
æ–‡æ˜Žåœ£ç«ï¼Œåƒå¤æœªç»è€…ï¼Œæƒ æˆ‘æ— åŒï¼›å’Œå¤©åœ°å¹¶å­˜ï¼Œä¸Žæ ¥æœˆ
同光!
俺は宮崎駿監督のアニメー ション映画が大好き!
ã‚¹ã‚¿ã‚¸ã‚ªã‚¸ãƒ–ãƒªã®æ˜ ç”»ãŒä ¸€ç•ªï¼
えど、アニメとライトノムルはお宅の精神食品が!
日本の文化は最高だ!
I love Chinese culture, Japanese culture and USA culture!
And I think animation is my best enjoyment in which Miyazaki Hayao's movie is the best!


Posted by Theowne on 04.16.2011, 01:49 PM:

 

supertrf, the father shouts "hadashi de" (barefoot) immediately before hitting her.

Yes, her "wayward behavior" was the overall cause for the tension building through the entire scene. But the final catalyst or tipping point was her stepping outside barefoot.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, they can both be true.


__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Studio Ghibli reviews, anime film reviews, piano sheet music, etc.


Posted by Calforsale on 04.17.2011, 04:30 AM:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Theowne
supertrf, the father shouts "hadashi de" (barefoot) immediately before hitting her.

Yes, her "wayward behavior" was the overall cause for the tension building through the entire scene. But the final catalyst or tipping point was her stepping outside barefoot.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, they can both be true.


Yeah i agree. and supertrf it sounds as if you think what her father did was okay? Violence against children is never aceptable.


__________________


Posted by husky51 on 04.17.2011, 10:29 AM:

 

Regardless of what you think is right or wrong, the culture back then was for that kind of punishment. And nowhere else in the film is there any kind of physical punishment shown.

Again, right or wrong, I was raised strictlly with a strap or a belt and raised my kids with a belt if I thought it was needed. When I see how badly many of their friends have turned out and how responsible my kids are (and no, they are NOT angels by any means) I think that I did the right thing. After punishment, I always sat down with them and talked about why they were punished and expressed that regardless of their misbehavior that I ALWAYS loved them...

Misdeeds without consequences are not a learning experience, IMO

I believe that when kids stopped refering to adults by their surnames or ma'am and sir is when our society started falling apart. I don't know of any children, even my own grandkids, who call me by my last name. It is either Gramdpa or Grandpa Husky...

OK, enough... I'm off of my soapbox...


__________________


Posted by Theowne on 04.17.2011, 02:36 PM:

 

I agree with you husky...I don't necessarily like how everything is considered "child abuse" these days. That's a serious term, it should be reserved for serious situations.


__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Studio Ghibli reviews, anime film reviews, piano sheet music, etc.


Posted by leonbloy on 04.18.2011, 07:48 AM:

 

quote:
Originally posted by Theowne
I agree with you husky...I don't necessarily like how everything is considered "child abuse" these days. That's a serious term, it should be reserved for serious situations.



Well said.


__________________
Hernán (Argentina)
My Ghibli guitar covers with tabs -My Ghibli page


Posted by husky51 on 04.18.2011, 09:29 AM:

 

My son and dau-in-law were in a store and their three yr old was screaming hysterically. My son gave a small slap on the cheek to bring her out of it, which worked btw. When they got home, the cops were there waiting! Turns out a woman had taken his license number and reported his ' child abuse'...

Yes, save the term 'child abuse' for the serious things...

btw, it is now recorded that he was accused of abusing a child...


__________________


Posted by dballred on 04.19.2011, 12:28 AM:

 

quote:
Originally posted by husky51
My son and dau-in-law were in a store and their three yr old was screaming hysterically. My son gave a small slap on the cheek to bring her out of it, which worked btw. When they got home, the cops were there waiting! Turns out a woman had taken his license number and reported his ' child abuse'...

Yes, save the term 'child abuse' for the serious things...

btw, it is now recorded that he was accused of abusing a child...

On a tangential matter, both of my sons had "the mark" as babies. It's a blue splotch in the small of the back extremely common in newborn Asian children. It goes away in a few months. Non-Asian babysitters have mistakenly reported these splotches as evidence of child abuse.


Posted by supertrf on 04.19.2011, 09:21 AM:

 

I watched the Japanese edition again and I found I was wrong.Yes, the father said はだしで(barefoot).
In the edition of Chinese subtitles I watched last time I saw the dad said "too wayward"....
Maybe the translation subtitles was wrong...

Thank you for Theowne .

And to Calforsale , you said "Violence against children is never aceptable". But in Eastern countries it's advocated. From ancient China to modern China and Japan,people thinks it need to punish children to educate them.
Have you ever heard a saying "education without punishment isn't complete education"?

Well, all in all.We all think "child abuse" is not good,but for me and for most people in East we think it's useful to punish children and we have the tradition of punishment. Of course these has always been proved to be successful.

But that's only culture differences.Just like thesedays, Amy Lynn Chua do you know?
About questions of education ways and whether we should punish child or not and which ways of education(East or West)is better are still in dispute.

At last , I don't think giving one's own child a slap on the cheek is "child abuse".If not, maybe we even can't touch our children one day because they can accuse us as "child abuse"!

So just talk about animation that's enough...

P.S.
I agree with husky51、Theowne and leonbloy's opinions.


__________________
吾热爱吉卜力,热爱宫崎骏 ¼Œçˆ±åŠ¨æ¼«çˆ±æ˜ ç”»ï¼
中国历史源远流长,泱泱华 夏五千年。
æ–‡æ˜Žåœ£ç«ï¼Œåƒå¤æœªç»è€…ï¼Œæƒ æˆ‘æ— åŒï¼›å’Œå¤©åœ°å¹¶å­˜ï¼Œä¸Žæ ¥æœˆ
同光!
俺は宮崎駿監督のアニメー ション映画が大好き!
ã‚¹ã‚¿ã‚¸ã‚ªã‚¸ãƒ–ãƒªã®æ˜ ç”»ãŒä ¸€ç•ªï¼
えど、アニメとライトノムルはお宅の精神食品が!
日本の文化は最高だ!
I love Chinese culture, Japanese culture and USA culture!
And I think animation is my best enjoyment in which Miyazaki Hayao's movie is the best!

Powered by: Burning Board 1.2 2001-2002 by WoltLab GbR