Tips on not mixing up やすい and やさしい every single time? I manage to get this consistently wrong in conversation, and only ever realise my mistake once it's too late to go back and correct it.

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And I have no idea about what you've mistakenly said...

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The only way I've found to keep Japanese vocabulary straight is to know the kanji. Otherwise I swear every single word in the language is either kyoukou or koukyou or kokyou or some other barely differentiated variation. Knowing the kanji really helps you compartmentalize the words and keep them separate in your head. It also helps with words that have multiple meanings. やさしい, for example, can be written with two different kanji:

優しい means gentle, kind, friendly.

易しい means easy, simple.

Before I knew the kanji, I had a hard time remembering that the same word could mean both. Even if you haven't really started learning kanji yet, I would recommend looking up new vocabulary words to get a sense for how they're written. It probably can't hurt.

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I don't think kanji is really the issue, as I've been studying it as long as I've been studying Japanese. The problem is that while やすい normally means "cheap", there is also the grammatical form ～しやすい, meaning "easy to ~". The difficulty comes up when I'm speaking, and mistakenly use やすい to mean "easy", which of course mystifies the listener who thinks I'm saying something is cheap.

There are other similar-sounding words that I mix up a lot too. One of my current concerns is that I don't really feel that I'm improving at all. I was at the bank today and even though I managed to do what I wanted, I think every sentence I uttered was wrong - even when it came to words/grammar I know very well! It ain't やさしい.

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In that case, I would maybe suggest trying to use 簡単, rather than 易しい, when you want to say something is easy? I'm glad you clarified, because at first I didn't realize the -やすい ending was what was mixing you up. If it helps at all, -にくい is not used by itself as an adjective either (not to my knowledge, that is). So it's better to think of those two words not as adjectives at all, but more like weird verb modifier things. Can you tell I haven't studied Japanese formally?

Honestly, it's probably something that just comes with time and experience. When I first got to Japan I could barely string two words together. But hearing and speaking the language on a daily basis does have a noticeable effect. I remember when I first got here, I would always misuse だけ, placing it before the modified word like we use "only" in English. But, what do you know, I don't do that anymore. I didn't make any active effort to eliminate that particular mistake, I just kept speaking and listening and screwing up, and after a while I started screwing up less.

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I looked up にくい and it looks like it does work as a standalone adjective, but I've never actually seen it used. I don't think of those uses as adjectives either, so I agree with you there. I actually hadn't thought of 簡単, though I do know the word, so maybe that's a good solution!

I think part of the difficulty for me is that since I do study it formally, I'm often hanging out with other people in the same situation as me. And so, when I'm with people who are better than me, if I struggle to say something, they can always step in and, well, take over the conversation. Being around other students can make my abilities seem very inadequate sometimes. It's a shame, because I really like hanging out with them.

When I do make mistakes, it's very annoying because for the most part, I know exactly what I've done wrong. The thing is, I'm not so great if I don't have time to think about it, so even when I've spent lots of time learning something, if I have to come up with it on the spot, I end up spouting nonsense.

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I think most people would agree that trying to express original thoughts off the cuff is one of the most difficult things to do in another language, and it's probably the skill that formal language learning helps the least with. To be really good at it, you basically have to be able to think in the other language, which realistically requires many years of full immersion. I won't claim to be great at having conversations on the fly, still pretty inadequate actually, but it does get easier the more you do it. Your brain adapts to the parameters of the new language, and your mouth eventually follows suit. Really basic ideas have started to come to me in Japanese before they do in English, which is encouraging. Ideally you want to be in a place where the language flows intuitively and you don't have to think about grammar at all as you speak. But that certainly can seem a long way off.

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 10.18.2013, 08:41 PM.

This seems kind of a basic thing but I just want to be sure about it. I get that この、その、and あの are in turn 'this', 'that', and 'that (far away)', but I was wondering which you should use for something that isn't in your sight at all. Like if you're just talking about it and it isn't actually there. Or, say, talking about a person who isn't there. It'd be あの人 wouldn't it?

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Yes, in most cases. "Achira" or its informal form "acchi" are also used pretty frequently, to refer to either a person or general direction.

Technically, "soko," "sono," and "sochira" are all supposed to refer to things that are near the person you are presently speaking with, which can complicate matters. If you're talking to someone on the phone, for example, and you're referring to their location, even if it's really far away, you'd use "soko" rather than "asoko."

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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 12.02.2013, 10:53 AM.

quote:

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Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
I think most people would agree that trying to express original thoughts off the cuff is one of the most difficult things to do in another language, and it's probably the skill that formal language learning helps the least with. To be really good at it, you basically have to be able to think in the other language, which realistically requires many years of full immersion. I won't claim to be great at having conversations on the fly, still pretty inadequate actually, but it does get easier the more you do it. Your brain adapts to the parameters of the new language, and your mouth eventually follows suit. Really basic ideas have started to come to me in Japanese before they do in English, which is encouraging. Ideally you want to be in a place where the language flows intuitively and you don't have to think about grammar at all as you speak. But that certainly can seem a long way off.

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Japanese learners are always complaining about keigo, but I actually quite enjoy being able to make really elaborate and needlessly over-polite sentences. I'm doing some homework that reviews it now, and was tempted to write "irasshatte irasshaimasu".

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Being overly formal will make it sound rude, according to my teacher. The same way it does in English.

I'm thinking of picking up where I left off and be properly fluent in the language. There's quite a demand for the language's proficiency in the Engineering sector, and I might as well take advantage of it.

Casual speech differ a lot from business conversation, though.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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I haven't heard of it sounding rude, just overdone and foolish. I can see how it would come across as snarky though.

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Oh, but of course it can, your highness.

I also find it fun to write needlessly over-polite sentences. (As I do in English, especially after reading any Shakespeare). But I probably wouldn't use them because I've also heard that it can be taken as rude, or at least insincere.

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Post last edited by Mush on 12.15.2013, 09:46 AM.

It is fun, isn't it? But yeah of course I'd never really speak like that, because it just sounds ridiculous (as it does if you overdo it in English, or probably any language).

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"Doth your mother know you wear-eth her drapes?" Yeah, snarky. And yeah, it's actually kinda true for pretty much any language, huh? At least that's one thing language barrier can't be blamed for.

You know, it could be kinda interesting if this thread were to continue in actual japanese. Not knowing kanji sucks, I know, but if it helps improves everyone's japanese, why not?

たとえば上の方は英語で、そして下の方は日本語で会話 をしたら、どうですかな? できるだけけいごをを使ったほうがいいと思うけど、ま ぁ、無理にしなくていいでしょう。

__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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I was going to complain about how I still can't figure out how to type in Japanese on my JAPANESE COMPUTER, but then, voila...

やっとキーボード設定が日本語で書けるように変わりま した！よかった。

So yeah, let's try the writing in Japanese thing. Should be fun.

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Sounds like a good idea. Of course, if people want to ask questions in English that's fine too, but let's try and use Japanese where we can.

それでは、日本語で話し始めましょう！頑張ります！

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quote:

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Originally posted by Orphic Okapi
I was going to complain about how I still can't figure out how to type in Japanese on my JAPANESE COMPUTER, but then, voila...

やっとキーボード設定が日本語で書けるように変わりま した！よかった。

So yeah, let's try the writing in Japanese thing. Should be fun.

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__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site

quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
Shouldn't there still be IME? Or are you not using windows?

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Yeah, I have IME. But I had to mess with the settings a ton before I figured out how it works.

quote:

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あと、「キーボード設定」じゃなく、「キーボードの 設定」じゃないですか?

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おい、おい、細かいことにうるさいな。のを落としてもいいはずですよ。

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