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Nausicaa_Cat
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Registration Date: 10.02.06
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Oh lord saviour I feel the need to intercede once again.
What saddle has suggested as to what 'solution' may exist, is exactly what I have tried to impress as my own viewpoint. I made it quite clear what I believe (and here I quote myself)
'I realise what I want in terms of equality is something that will probably take decades of feminist work to achieve but if it is achieved I believe strongly that it will be due to these women's work.'
I believe that the only real solution that exists is the continued campaigning and efforts of feminists. In retrospect my wording was a little harsh in that improved sexual equality is a fight that will also be fought by I'm sure plenty of male feminists, but essentially I agree with Saddles viewpoint.
Complete changes in social behaviour and views don't happen overnight, but they can certainly be achieved given time and effort. Already great advances have been made, particularly in secular Western countries.
Saviour, you have mentioned this 'male opens a female strip so women open a male strip bar' thing before but I think you have misunderstood to some extent. Sexual equality for women isn't about manipulating and abusing male sexuality in return for them doing the same to women. Its about no manipulation or abuse of sexuality at all.
Though actually I have no problem with strip bars. Plenty of strippers are happy to do the work, have no problem with it and don't find it demeaning. Equally I think plenty of men go to them more for the thrill and amusement of the experience than with the intention of disrepecting women. Something that has come along with increased sexual equality is the realisation that sex shouldn't be and isn't a weapon. You'll find lots of feminists are actually in support of porn. Sexual expression isn't a problem if it's done in a way in which nobody gets harmed or abused in the process of it. Besides, the stripper's bodies belong to them - if they want to shake them all about the place in exchange for some cash, than fair play to them. A lot of them are using the money to support families, or to pay for student fees, or just to get by. I realise I've strayed from the point slightly, but I felt it was worth saying.
Post last edited by Nausicaa_Cat on 03.21.2012, 01:57 PM.
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 03.21.2012, 01:56 PM |
  
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5726 |
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Savior, you keep saying religion is good and it cannot be wrong. But you see, it doesn't matter how good it is. Until humans can stop abusing it's teachings for their own agendas.
The reason that people say religion is bad is because it is VERY unlikely that people will stop abusing it. And also because of certain extreme points of views it tends to teach.
Like most ideologies are good in theory, they are judged by how they are in practice.
As far as the solution for equality between sexes... well, it's has been said by several people. It will take time and work, if it was simple then there wouldn't be a problem at all.
The suggestion is NOT strip bars... how did you even... no. The suggestion is "As to the solution to sexual equality - a slow and steady insistence on dismantling our current male-domianted society by active females and liberal males is the way, as Nausicaa Cat and others have said. Its been at work since the late 1800s and is still working away. I am confident we'll get there, or at least see more improvements."
There, Saddles summed it up nicely. The "harassment thing" will change with changing attitudes about the identity and image of womenkind. That will take time.
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| 03.21.2012, 02:47 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
Saviour, you have mentioned this 'male opens a female strip so women open a male strip bar' thing before but I think you have misunderstood to some extent. Sexual equality for women isn't about manipulating and abusing male sexuality in return for them doing the same to women. Its about no manipulation or abuse of sexuality at all.
i have tried to say the same thing in all of my posts. yes that is the only solution.
quote:
Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
Though actually I have no problem with strip bars. Plenty of strippers are happy to do the work, have no problem with it and don't find it demeaning. Equally I think plenty of men go to them more for the thrill and amusement of the experience than with the intention of disrepecting women. Something that has come along with increased sexual equality is the realisation that sex shouldn't be and isn't a weapon.
this is where you are wrong why because here you are actually challenging the laws of nature. Now try to understand the man will never be less stronger than women. So when they will get exited they will harass girls. that is not right at all but that is how guys are . So we have to make sure that the guys do not get exited. [ at this point i am asking you to read the two post i have written about my country's implementation of cable tv and its affects] And that is where your solution fails. Do you understand me. if the women harassment can not be stopped then you are not getting your rights. It may feel right to you that the girls or boys who strips in strip bar are getting cash for stripping then what is the fault of the girl who is just walking by because she will be harassed by those guys who have returned from a strip bar.
The more the guys will go to strip bars the more they will get exited.
Your solution is if a girl dresses revealingly then she need to be properly honored. Your solution may provide that when a girl dresses revealingly she will not be seen as a whore But that actually do not solve the problem. but that does not matter because she will be still harassed . because girls are harassed in spite of their clothing. So what is the solution
quote:
Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
I realise I've strayed from the point slightly, but I felt it was worth saying
i do not know a word how to praise you . as you are talking from your heart i am understanding what do you want exactly. [i am not still understanding what do you want to prove, that may be because of my lack of knowledge in creative english understanding or maybe because you are not getting my points] please do not stop to posting we all can sort things out between ourselves an then start working on them[ working on them is important] . as you got the point about the need of modesty in culture and soiciety, i am optimist that you will also get my other points [ probably by roarkiller because his skill of writing is better than me]
Offtopic: do you know what these feminist workers have achieved they have achieved universal suffrage and their right to work in the offices as honorably [ i mean getting the same posts as their counterparts if they got the merit] as their counterparts. those things were actually their rights written in the religions. Man actually held them to get those. But now their motives are very unbalanced because i do not see them working on the security of women at all. which is actually the most important issue.
[in my country women did not even needed to work for that as they get the job if they got merit, offtopic: in my country i actually feel unsecured as thinking some girl will get my job. why? because she is more hard-worker than me , i waste time when she reads. another problem she will be richer than me. how? she will be married to a guy who is in almost same position as her. but they will never underestimate their duty as mother they will sacrifice even their job for that. She will take another one after the baby can be looked after by anyone(may be babies father , or grandmothers etc)] [the main problem of my country's women is harassment]
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.21.2012, 03:37 PM.
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| 03.21.2012, 03:09 PM |
 
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Nausicaa_Cat
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Registration Date: 10.02.06
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But saviour, don't you see that men who after watching a woman strip would then after becoming aroused go assault/harass another young woman is frankly quite disturbed? Such a person is just as likely to become aroused watching televsion, or porn, or reading a novel featuring a sex scene. The strip bar isn't the problem, it is this crude, violent man that is the problem. And he is in fact the minority. Millions of men visit strip bars, this does not turn them into sexual predators. Sexual predators probably do visit these bars, but they were predators before they entered them, and would be predators without them.
In British and American cultures, for example, it is a cheeky tradition for the groom before his wedding to be taken on his 'stag' party to a strip bar or for a stripper to be hired for his party. This does not make the groom or any of his fellow friends suddenly get aroused and become abusive towards women. It's just fun. These men are aware that ogling some half-naked lady and assaulting a passer-by on the street are two completely different things. You seem to think that men can't control themselves if they see a woman wearing few clothes, but I think that's actually a pretty depressing view of men. If I thought that was true I'd probably be put off guys for life!
Plus in your final comment you seemed to imply that religion supported women gaining the vote and workplace rights. You are aware that religion has always pretty much hindered women's equality? In Britain Christianity preached for centuries that women inherited the sin of Eve, that it said in the Bible women were to be men's helpmate and to obey him etc. This may or may not have been a misuse of the Bible and a misinterpretation, but for a long time these religious views held women back.
When the Suffragettes originally campaigned for women's vote, they burned down churches, because the Church of England was against them. It was not supportive of women's suffrage, and it certainly did not aid them.
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| 03.21.2012, 03:23 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nausicaa_Cat
But saviour, don't you see that men who after watching a woman strip would then after becoming aroused go assault/harass another young woman is frankly quite disturbed? Such a person is just as likely to become aroused watching televsion, or porn, or reading a novel featuring a sex scene. The strip bar isn't the problem, it is this crude, violent man that is the problem. And he is in fact the minority. Millions of men visit strip bars, this does not turn them into sexual predators. Sexual predators probably do visit these bars, but they were predators before they entered them, and would be predators without them.
You do not understood my point it is not really necessary to do that just after that. Sometimes guys may not have the money to see the girls striping but their need has to be entertained so they entertain those need by harassing girls. And watching a striping girl can solve the problem for one day but the guys outlook will be so much changed. I assume you are not very old , but it is a fact that the more people are acquainted with sex the more hungry they become. it is scientific . so you will see the divorces that is done for sexual unfulfillment[ negative of fulfillment as i am not founding a good word] is done actually in the middle age . This thing starts at adolescence and grows more and more and is highest at middle age. So do you understand why strip club can not feed these men that they need to harass girls.
Do you understand why the number of people who harass girls is increasing?
Because of my facts. Men are getting more and more exited.You are a super intelligent girl. you understood the point yes that is right guys get exited when they see television, or porn, or reading a novel featuring a sex scene. And your point of sexual predator is taken i agree with you about this point. There was something like that in all of the ages. But the guys who harass girls now are not sexual predator , they are just regular guys who are exited. Sexual predator can not be stopped [i mean we can punish him but we can not solve this sexual predator thing totally, but if the society is strong enough then the number who harass girls will be decreased] But the regular guys can be easily stopped by strong social and religious rules and stopping the the ways that excites guys.
N.B: it is 2 at night . i am sorry nc that i did not read the rest of the post than the upper part. i will read it in tomorrow morning.and post about it
But i think you should read the two posts that i have written about tv in page 6. [ so that you can find out my errors]
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 03.21.2012, 04:05 PM |
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
Posts: 7589 |
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I want to join in this discussion, but my debating skills are not very good. ._.; I'm not someone who can, but some things there are I feel strongly about...
I don't think being religious will stop someone from doing what they do. I don't know how it is in Saviour's country. But as far as I've seen, as there are many religious people where I live and me being one of the few with no real belief in religion (although if I marry my boyfriend, my children will be raised Catholic. I'm cool with that as long as he lets them have the choice of staying religious once they got older and not forcing). I'm not an evil woman. I don't believe that being religious in any way will truly stop men from doing things such as harassing women or other men. Some people are just... psycho or idiots?
I'm not sure whereas I'm getting at. lol I often wonder what my boyfriend's beliefs are on women's rights since he has an old sort of view set. I know he is extremely against abortion for any reason, even when I told him if a woman is raped. He made it sound like then it was the woman's fault for being in the wrong place at the wrong place and that they provoked a man into raping them. I simply don't understand this. I asked what he would do if I ever was, but he laughed and said that would never happen. It actually infuriated me, but I've got to understand the different cultural beliefs he has too.
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| 03.21.2012, 05:24 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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I shouldn't be answering these posts any more but it's like some awful road accident you can't look away from. I know I'll regret it but here we go...
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletank
He thinks he's religious! You may think differently but that does not change what he claims drives him.
this is actually the first time that i am getting your point. you should have made that earlier. instead you said religion does not work.
Well...actually I did make the point pretty clear three times if you understand English but hey-ho.
quote:
i understand now the man who is doing the wrong thing is actually thinking that he is religious. i never thought about that before. i never thought that he is thinking himself a religious person.
My God, the penny's dropped. Or maybe... Either this is a true Road to Damascus epiphany or you're a troll.
quote:
but still my point prevails because at the end the man who is doing wrong has to prove to himself[ if he thinks himself religious he must think that he has to answer to the god otherwise he will not be religious] that what he has done has brought more good than bad. how in the world those man, who are calling themselves religious, can prove themselves and to god that thing?
These men thought and believed with all their hearts that they were doing Gods work. How more clearly can I state this fact?
Men, throughout history, for 2000 years, sincerely think themselves religious and true servants of God, blessed by God and doing Gods work, actually wilfully and gleefully do evil. The Spanish Inquisition which considered itself the right hand of God tortured and murdered in the most gruesome ways tens of thousands of innocent people of their own faith.
There. Has that sunk in now?
quote:
Now saddletank now tell me how can he cheat to himself?
You can't accept it can you? These men are not cheating themselves nor do they think they are cheating God. They think they are doing what God truly wants them to do.
You were not aware that the Pope gave the Crusaders his blessing and the blessings of God to sail forth from Europe to slay Saladin's soldiers and massacre thousands of civilians in Jerusalaem? That before every battle the Crusader knights would kneel and pray for Gods blessing and strength to be with them and empower their right arms as they went off to murder? That priests sprinkled holy water on swords and lances?
In all of this discussion I haven't even mentioned most modern cases of religious fanatics committing murder in the name of God because I thought we'd totally lose the plot and get too emotive. You've heard of 9/11 I trust? Religious fanaticism at work.
I honestly am staggered that you never considered the world was like this. It's... sort of sad actually that you can go about the internet debating these things with such a narrow outlook on life.
Do you not know anything at all of how much evil has been caused in this world by religion? It doesn't matter how perfect the Qu'ran or Bible may be, it doesn't matter how wicked or cruel or stupid a man might be, if he takes the teaching from the Bible and twists it to his own ends then I think that is a bad thing and the world would be better off without organised religion.
Please don't say I'm being unscientific, please don't say this doesn't count because it's my opinion. This is not my opinion, these are facts. Read some history of the Christian west and decide for yourself.
Now then... what the heck were we discussing religion for? I've totally forgotten... Oh yes, religions that suppress women's rights. Or those who practice them that display double standards about their religious laws. I remember!
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 03.21.2012, 09:02 PM.
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| 03.21.2012, 09:02 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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@saddletank
you just do not want to understand that if everyone does what religion has told exactly then the problems will never occur. Though the practice was wrong the teachings will never be wrong. That is universal truth.
And in this point you start to insult your religion. And this is where i do not want to start because i do not want comparative religion debate. but still when you start to give example from the crusade i think i should make some points clear to you:
1. desperate want to become powerful is wrong, so when the popes are ordering [you know what they ordered] they are actually trying to become more powerful.
2.you are suggesting that no one understands religions true teachings that is where you are wrong too, when the crusaders did wrong things [i do not want to describe here] there were many people who said what the pope was doing was wrong but the pope did not paid heed to them or slaughtered them. this is the point you do not want to see.
you see the popes and the terrorists are actually are denying the fundamentals of religion. a terrorist does bad things from his hatred and crusaders[i mean pope] did bad things for his hunger for power .
quote:
posted by saddletank
These men thought and believed with all their hearts that they were doing Gods work. How more clearly can I state this fact?
I do not understand here. now tell me if someone is denying the basic fundamentals [i think you know them] of religion [these are available in islam,cristian and jewish] how can he call himself religious. this is where you should clear your answer.
[now saddletank i want to know[ i really want to know] so please do not stop posting. you are older so you have some responsibility]
[N.B: for crusade i have read some book, i liked the The Crusades: The flames of islam by Harold Lamb link in this book both the outlook of Cristian and muslims were written, i know i have not read all the books about this so will you please suggest me two books that has equally both of the peoples views]
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.22.2012, 05:57 AM.
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| 03.22.2012, 05:25 AM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Savior, you keep saying religion is good and it cannot be wrong. But you see, it doesn't matter how good it is. Until humans can stop abusing it's teachings for their own agendas.
The reason that people say religion is bad is because it is VERY unlikely that people will stop abusing it. And also because of certain extreme points of views it tends to teach.
Like most ideologies are good in theory, they are judged by how they are in practice.
this is where you are wrong. it is our duty to stop people abusing it. it is not religions duty. if a car is not maintained then it is not the cars duty to maintain it, it is the car owner's duty. this is where you all are wrong.
And for religion is has been proved that it worked and it worked for a very very long time. so when you start saying ideologies are judged by success you are doing a great mistake.
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
The "harassment thing" will change with changing attitudes about the identity and image of womenkind. That will take time.
this is where you are wrong the change of attitude will not stop harassment because people do not harass girls from that viewpoint.
no matter how they respect girls they will harass girls because of their sexual outlook. if you can change that then you can stop it. stopping strip bars, banning xxx content, and some other stuff can only do that. If you know a way to change males sexual outlook then post it.
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 03.22.2012, 05:47 AM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
@saddletank
you just do not want to understand that if everyone does what religion has told exactly then the problems will never occur. Though the practice was wrong the teachings will never be wrong. That is universal truth.
And in this point you start to insult your religion. And this is where i do not want to start because i do not want comparative religion debate. but still when you start to give example from the crusade i think i should make some points clear to you:
1. desperate want to become powerful is wrong, so when the popes are ordering [you know what they ordered] they are actually trying to become more powerful.
2.you are suggesting that no one understands religions true teachings that is where you are wrong too, when the crusaders did wrong things [i do not want to describe here] there were many people who said what the pope was doing was wrong but the pope did not paid heed to them or slaughtered them. this is the point you do not want to see.
Please would you stop telling me what it is I see and do not see and what it is I do not understand. You are limited to your viewpoint onto the world and I am linited to mine, but telling me my own mind is very rude of you.
quote:
you see the popes and the terrorists are actually are denying the fundamentals of religion. a terrorist does bad things from his hatred and crusaders[i mean pope] did bad things for his hunger for power .
Yes. I know. I agree. I have been saying this to you for several pages. It is what religion does to men. You cannot deny it, its factual history. Why, I do not know, it just is, men simply screw up religion big time, its what we're good at.
quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012 quote:
posted by saddletank
These men thought and believed with all their hearts that they were doing Gods work. How more clearly can I state this fact?
I do not understand here. now tell me if someone is denying the basic fundamentals [i think you know them] of religion [these are available in islam,cristian and jewish] how can he call himself religious. this is where you should clear your answer.
I don't have an answer as to why men did this and I don't need to give one. I am stating the facts. You need to accept them, and in accepting them, realise, as I do, that religion is a hateful corrupting force. It is simply what some men do when they are obeying their religion. No matter that you say they could not possibly be acting in the name of their religion, they were, and are. This was and is their belief. Faith does that to men.
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 03.22.2012, 12:47 PM.
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| 03.22.2012, 12:12 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012 And for religion is has been proved that it worked and it worked for a very very long time.
Where is your evidence for this assertion, especially in light of everything we have been discussing over the last few pages?
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
Post last edited by Saddletank on 03.22.2012, 12:22 PM.
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| 03.22.2012, 12:19 PM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.17.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12792 |
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| 03.22.2012, 12:30 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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saddletank you edited your post i have read it the first one , and i was answering that but suddenly you changed that
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
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| 03.22.2012, 01:06 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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Reply to it now. I wasn't happy with my first post so added to it, expanded it.
That's not against any of your rules is it?
__________________
Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 03.22.2012, 01:28 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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| 03.22.2012, 01:33 PM |
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fenkashi
Dibs on Supreme Overlord
Registration Date: 08.12.07
Location: Canada
Posts: 5726 |
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Saviour, you can edit posts before people reply to them if you want to add/change something. You're supposed to reply to the edited one. Not repost the original.
Edit: I do not see the point of posting that post... it is up to saddles how he wants to come off. =/
__________________
Post last edited by fenkashi on 03.22.2012, 02:05 PM.
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| 03.22.2012, 01:37 PM |
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AmtrakDesertWindrider
Calcifer
Registration Date: 11.17.11
Location:
Posts: 114 |
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I don't see how someone's take on religion, or for that matter the context into which it is taken, has ANYTHING to do with the discussion.
If this is such a big deal issue, WHY is it we're quibbling over rhetoric like little children?
Seriously...rhetoric has nothing to do with it.
__________________
風 の エンジニア
Also, Twilight Sparkle is best pony! 
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| 03.22.2012, 02:48 PM |
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saviour2012
Baron
Registration Date: 02.24.12
Location: Dhaka,Bangladesh
Posts: 1749 |
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quote:
Originally posted by AmtrakDesertWindrider
I don't see how someone's take on religion, or for that matter the context into which it is taken, has ANYTHING to do with the discussion.
If this is such a big deal issue, WHY is it we're quibbling over rhetoric like little children?
Seriously...rhetoirc has nothing to do with it.
unless you do not know what rhetoirc is follow this .link
read the total discussion attentively then only you will understand.
when you post something without reading it creates confusion.
we are talking like that all of us here want a solution and when we find that we will work on that. but many people's view on different points did not match so we are sorting things out between ourselves.
N.B.: in this forum there are people all over the world and they are very special because they like Studio Ghibli movies specially Hayao Miyazaki's movies . And Hayao Miyazaki is a special kind of director so we are special kind of viewers. The people who are here are those kind of people who can change the world and have a dream to change the world. i hope you understand the point why we were discussing like that
__________________
Watch everything but only take the good things from it
Ask, think and learn. Because the more we know the more we grow.
Watching the wrong to happen is the same as commiting the wrong.
If it looks like things are forcing you to be creative, Then be creative.
its a uniquely Miyazaki film, one only he could make and its uniqueness places it beyond being easily critiqued.[About Porco Rosso]
taken from a quote of Saddletank and Orphic Okapi
Post last edited by saviour2012 on 03.22.2012, 03:50 PM.
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| 03.22.2012, 03:36 PM |
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Nausicaa_Cat
Baron
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location:
Posts: 3198 |
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Saviour, what confuses me about your argument is that you appear to be presenting the concept that men are sexual creatures that when faced with sexual content such as in strip bars, or porn, they are unable to control themselves from harassing women - even if they have respect for women.
But you have also argued in previous posts that men are not animals, are superior to animals, and seemed quite irritated by people referring to barbaric cultures and similar things.
However, by saying that men cannot control themselves sexually you are placing them as the equivalent to beasts.
Humans are logical creatures which can choose actions based on sound reason, that is what ancient philosophers thought divided them from all other animals, why are you giving this no thought? I know plenty of young men who watch porn and yet are still respectful and polite to women. Heck, pretty much every guy I know has at least at some point in his young teenage years watched porn - and yet still manages to stop himself harassing women.
I'm wondering if perhaps this is a cultural difference. Here in the West porn and similar things with sexually explicit content have been available for decades now, we are somewhat desensitized to it so it doesn't turn men into raving sexual fiends. Perhaps because it's only more recently come to your country men are reacting to it more strongly? I still think it's a load of crap though that men after watching porn can't restrain and control themselves.
Are you saying that if you watched porn you wouldn't be able to resist your animalistic urge to go harass some woman? That you couldn't deal with the sight of a naked female body? Because frankly I think that is pretty depressing.
As far as the question of humans following religious books such as the Bible or the Qur'ran let me just say that even if a man followed the exact wording of these books they'd still end up behaving badly in many cases.
If you would like a clear example I'll use one from the Bible, since I'm more familiar with it, in which it makes a clear derogatory comment about women's equality with man:
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." - Corinthians 11:8-9
So women were created for man's sake? What kind of message does that send? There are plenty of other comments that I could use to point out how prejudiced the Bible is against women.
There are also all those laws in Leviticus condemning the wearing of mixed fabrics and the like, which would obviously be ridiculous to follow now.
I know a lot of people say that the Bible has to be taken in the cultural and social context of the time, but frankly a book that is meant to be passing on the word of God should not be vulnerable to something like that. The word of God should surely be absolute and eternal, not something that can be edited as time goes along and humanity evolves and civilises.
Sorry I went off a slight religious rant there ^^'
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| 03.22.2012, 05:24 PM |
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Saddletank
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 09.28.06
Location: On your case
Posts: 10069 |
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quote:
Originally posted by saviour2012
the reason that i re-posted it is in this one you were soft on me. but in the edited one you are pretty harsh 
I've already answered this. If you wish to reply, please reply to the edited one.
This is a good example of why we don't need to be and shouldn't be online at the same time to discuss this. Its not the same format as a debating chamber.
@ADW: the religion discussion is key to equality of women because as NC says, most faith books preach inequality (because they were written by men in times when women were mere chattels that were ranked somehwere between slaves and camels) and many states with religious laws also treat women as second class citizens; their lot is far worse than in the west, and here its still so bad it saddens me.
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Isakaya High School Roleplaying Info
"An old man like me stands no chance fighting against a high school girl in her underwear" - Oshino Meme, Nekomonogatari (Kuro)
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| 03.22.2012, 07:24 PM |
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