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Saddletank
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Registration Date: 09.28.06
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Today I came across two particularly unpleasant threads in the general discussion area. I’d like to suggest that the Tavern formally bans the use of certain profane words and negative topics.

My suggestions are that the Tavern bans:

Discussion of drug abuse.
Racism in any form.
Anti-gay language in any form.

However discussion of these issues in a mature and positive way is acceptable.

Ban the use of the following:

f**k
c**t

The use of the words “Christ” and “Jesus” when used in a blasphemous way offends me too, more so than the above two four-letter words although I understand many people here couldn’t care less about the use of those words in that context.

I choose not to use those 4-letter words and expect to enjoy the right to not see them used on a forum where we know children as young as 13 are members, and some guests may be even younger.

If someone breaks these rules I’d like to see them initially get a warning. For a second offence there may be a means to suspend their account for say a week to allow them to cool off. I have seen that used to good effect on other forums. A third breach will see the account banned, and that user banned if they create a new account. So basically “stay away from these forums, we don’t want you here.”

All input welcome.


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arren18
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I never saw the racism or anti-gay stuff, but I agree. And in the case of bad language, I don't think it should auto-censor, because then you can't tell whether the person censored it themselves or not unless you edit the post.


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Roarkiller
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It's SUPPOSED to be censored. I don't know why it's not.

But anyway, I'm not really against two of those three. Being anti-gay is a personal opinion. Hell, I'M anti-gay. I'm anti a lot of things. And I make my opinions openly known often enough. The debate about gay issues is too broad to take sides.

Drugs are harmful, yes, I know. But seriously, the most we can do is advise them to stop, the end. No one can force them to stop, and likewise, no one can force them to not talk about their addiction.

Racism though, I draw the line, but not to the extreme either. I only draw the line because racist comments are much more easy to offend people than, say, being anti-gay.

Don't worry though, I'm there if you need me to be anyway. And I'll still take into account you guys' opinions, regardless of what I think (sucks to be me).


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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Saddletank
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Sure, I trust your moderation, and as I said I'm sure we're capable of mature discussion of any subject, even the nitty gritty details. What I particularly dislike is having some random post pop up in a thread saying "I take drugs and it's great!" when clearly the worlds drug problem is overwhelming proof that drug abuse isn't "great", thus I'd like such posts to be made to vanish very fast (thanks Roar) and those posting them told not to and if they continue then they're not welcome here.

Same with the anti-gay thing. Sure we all have our views and I'm sure we're capable of having a talk about it but a post from someone out of the blue attacking gay people offends me, its not like gay people are ill and can be cured, to them it's their way of life and heaping abuse on someone for something they have no control over is offensive and unfair, it's just as bad as being rude about a person because of the colour of their skin IMO. Hence, delete such posts and tell the poster to stop is my request.

Post last edited by Saddletank on 01.15.2008, 03:14 AM.

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Miyrru
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Registration Date: 08.16.06
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I like those ideas, I would disagree with saddles as the religious slurs are a little more person specific. Regular cursing is offending to almost all, the religious ones hit a smaller demographic. But I'll throw in a 'jees' I know that it is a short form of Jesus, but whatever.

Anti-gay language is a moot point to me, I would be indifferent, people being gay doesn't affect me, and it doesn't harm me in any way. If i call something gay, i'm not intentionally tearing them down. I just have always used that term since i was in like grade 4. People choose to take offense to it. The people who are anti-gay, are usually REALLY anti-gay, so I guess we can ban it, we just need to be more creative with language on how we can say something sucks or is odd.

I have no idea why the drugs were brought up, but where was the need to comment on it? I already won my pm flame war with whatever the aussie guy wants to call himself. If all he cares about is his friends then i can talk to them in person or on msn or on the phone, and can leave our 'nerdy' website alone.

Just my opinion, I mean no offense to anyone, And I apologize in advance if i may have caused any.


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Theowne
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Registration Date: 02.11.07
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quote:
But seriously, the most we can do is advise them to stop


Not really. This web forum isn't public property or anything. You can make rules, and you can enforce them.


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Saddletank
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Yup, this is privately owned property. What the owner says goes. Play by his rules or play elsewhere.

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Atradius
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Registration Date: 11.10.07
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Yeah we had this problem on our old forums a while ago and I was one of the moderators involved.

Essentially our problem was the same, we had one or two people (newcomers in both cases) who were starting to cause disturbances and flame about certain subjects. We'd never had any problems before and for the most part everyone had trusted one another to post sensibly, so we banned the flamers, not even a warning. Currently on these forums people very much adopt the same line, regular posters (you know who you are) all know each other here, and so you have kinda worked out a set of boundaries. Where possible this should remain the norm.

Personally I found it quite difficult earlier when reading the thread in question not to post (the thing about me being at work at the time is a lie) so I just had to force myself to wait it out and let the subject die, something I wouldn't have done in my old capacity as a forum mod.

Going slightly back on subject I think I am more on Saddle's side here. I agree with the banning of swear words like the one you mentioned, as in almost all cases they are used in an offensive context. An example is that I wouldn't think much of someone saying "oh f**k" in anger or frustration, but would be offended if it was directed at a person, "f**k you" being a good example. But because it is impossible to draw a fine distinction between the two in a forum setting it is just much safer to rule them out all together.

As for Racsism I agree with all the above posts. It is offensive to almost everyone in some regard, no matter what the context is, so it shouldn't be tolerated.

The whole "gay issue" is somewhat more tricky in my opinion. I personally agree with Roarkiller, I'm anti-gay in that I find the idea slightly uncomfortable and unnatural, but even so I wouldn't ever bring it up in debate as a means to make a point or to shout down someone else. However you use it though, the word "gay" will always have negative connortations. So ultimately if given the choice I would say to try and avoid mentioning it. There is a time and place for it, but anime forums are not one of those.

Ultimately it is your call Roar, from what I've seen you ride the fence as much as Mod/Admin should, so don't let any of us tell you how to your job. As long as you remain the voice of authority people will obey you.

To summarise, in case you want to take a quick consensus of opinion...
Swearing and other foul language: No
Rascism: No
Gay and other homophobic remarks: Be a little more lenient than with the others, but if it continues a warning then a ban would be right.
Religious: I know I didn't mention this in any detail but I feel it falls in the same catergory as Gay and Homophobic remarks, it's at roarkillers discretion.

quote:
It's SUPPOSED to be censored. I don't know why it's not.

And as for the language filter, there are certain ways that people can get around it. There are countermeasures though, PM me if you'd like details Roar.

Yours Nonsensically,
Atra

Post last edited by Atradius on 01.15.2008, 07:38 AM.

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harmony-of-mar
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alot of the convos about drugs and the swearing was my fault, i really must apologise, im so sorry.
i didnt think things would escalate.
if my account is banned i wont blame you.


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foreignfilmfreak
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Yeah, I'm not too big a fan of those two words. I said one a lot, and I dunno what the other one means and don't wanna. ._. I never learnt swear words until last year. And I do tend to say some very bad ones if I'm ticked or mad at something, but it sort of can't be helped, although no ones said for me to stop. ^^' Then again, how many people read my posts? ._. lol

I get in trouble for saying the Religious stuff though. 'Cause I'm not religious, it doesn't bother me. As for gays, yeah, no flaming them. ^^ Some of my rl friends are that way and I don't like people being mean to them. Usually I have Allie to help with though. She'd be good for talking to people who don't listen.

I really have no idea exactly what I'm trying to say. ^^' Just trying to say somethings for this..

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Saddletank
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quote:
Originally posted by harmony-of-mar
alot of the convos about drugs and the swearing was my fault, i really must apologise, im so sorry.
i didnt think things would escalate.
if my account is banned i wont blame you.

No, please Harmony, I've been telling you by PMs it wasn't your fault. It's okay, you did nothing wrong, its just that once people react like that, just don't answer them, talk to them by PMs or MSN or the phone or something so that the whole forum doesn't see it, that's the point Roarkiller is making in his moderator note: don't argue with people and there wouldn't be any flamey thread.

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harmony-of-mar
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sorry i didnt do that!
it wont happen again, i swear on my collection of cyborg 009 dvds!


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Roarkiller
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@Atradius: Yea I know most of the tricks to get around them filters. But it still doesn't solve the problem (or if you know how, then by all means, tell).

Anyway, in another forum I go to, we have one rule that is enforced above all else: Use your common sense. Just because it's not listed here doesn't make it right, so if you know it's wrong, don't do it.

Which covers every ground, and literally allows the mods and admins to literally say "because I say so".


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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Mush
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I would really like to push for zero tolerance for homophobic slurs, including the use of the word "gay" to mean irritating/ stupid/etc. I don't see any grey area for tolerating homophobia but not racism. It's as offensive.

Thanks.


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Seiji
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quote:
Originally posted by Mushka
I would really like to push for zero tolerance for homophobic slurs, including the use of the word "gay" to mean irritating/ stupid/etc. I don't see any grey area for tolerating homophobia but not racism. It's as offensive.

Thanks.



I second that. Let's just try and not tolerate intolerance in general.

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natsuba
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sorry, ignore

Post last edited by natsuba on 02.01.2008, 12:09 PM.

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fenkashi
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Personally, I think we should have zero tolerance for any derogatory terms. It's rude, uncalled for and just plain offensive. Honestly, I think we have enough words in the English language to get our point across without resorting to hurtful words, regardless of the context.

Just my thought.


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Saddletank
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I agree with Fen and Mushka and Seiji. Over the last 24 hours while I've been struggling to work out why I couldn't get forum access I was trying a few things and thought I'd create a second account. On the registration page are some rules which I had completely forgotten.

One of them is:

quote:
By registering, you agree not to post messages that are vulgar, impolite, disrespectful or that express (extreme) political views or (verbal) law offences.
And another (which I'm paraphrasing as the page changed just as I was taking it in):

quote:
The Adminstrators reserve the right to delete your account at any time without explanation.
So, fellow forum members; you agreed not to use vulgar language like four letter words when you registered. And you agreed not to talk about taking drugs when you registered.

And things that I was accused of recently were one heck of a lot more than "impolite".

I really think its time this forum used it's teeth and showed a few people the door, or at the very least leaned towards supporting the views of the more active members.

One last thing that is bothering me more and more and I freely admit to being guilty of it too, is the freedom with which posters are able to talk about illegally obtained software and illegal watching of free fansubs, etc of anime and manga. This is an emotive subject for us all, yes, we'd all love to be able to get our hands on more anime with English subs than the professional distributors release and I'd love to get my hands on several hundred dollars worth of PhotoShop for nothing but just because you don't have the money is NO EXCUSE and watching/downloading fansubs IS illegal and I would like to raise my hand and request that all discussion in future is deleted from posts, especially links to sites that offer illegal music and other files.

@ Roar : Oh, and please would you delete the new account "saddletank_2" its not needed


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Post last edited by Saddletank on 02.01.2008, 10:55 PM.

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T.C.
Totoro




Registration Date: 08.27.07
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wow, i missed out on alot while i was on holiday..
Its perfectly understandable why these kinds of rules are put in place and those who don't respect them should not force that on the otherwise compliant and polite user base (i really hope i havent done anything wrong or offended anyone ijn the past otherwise ill look quite the fool right now). Didnt see the threads for the mentioned problems but i have know the active users as well as most people here.. all i can say is that those who choose to be delibertaely offensive (or whatever) should not be here and are best ignored if not deleted..

on a side note i'm surprised at this "anti-gay" sentiment.. but in accordance with the rules i will respect peoples opinions so long as they respect mine on any matter

@Saddletank: I just realized i have often spoken of some anime of questionable origion to you and others and would like to apolagise if that made you uncomfortable. i suppose ive never thought of it as an offensive or rude thing to bring up, so im sorry.

Post last edited by T.C. on 02.02.2008, 02:09 AM.

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Saddletank
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quote:
Originally posted by T.C. on a side note i'm surprised at this "anti-gay" sentiment.. but in accordance with the rules i will respect peoples opinions so long as they respect mine on any matter
I'm assuming that was humour in which case ignore this.

But it's the "your opinion/view is fine" thing that I have an issue with. People's opinions and views are *not* fine if they are offensive or condone unlawful acts, in which case they may still hold them, but not voice them on a privately owned webforum where the rules they agreed to when they registered state otherwise.

Not including you, T.C. in this at all but if anyone here does start to make anti-gay comments I think they'd just better leave, the majority of members seem to not want that stuff.

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