Miyazaki/Takahata - which movie is the Best of the 80s?

As UO made a poll on the Ghibli thetrical releases of the 90s, I think I may as well post one for the movies of the 80s. So which do you think is the best of all? 8]

Don't forget to tell us the reasons behind your choice after you have voted!

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Nausicca is the 1 for me

1 : Nausicca
(as my favorite)
production that keeps rein, because he didn't make the movie for a while.
thats tickles my mind.
at that time, i was expecting it vry much because i was able to see the Miyazaki's Movie after a long time, since Cagliostro.
this is one of the reasons.

2 : Laputa
(as the Movie)
its wonderful as the movie.
the characters live vividly on the screen.
Eexcluding animation and the color specification of the scene to which the castle collapses.
A similar thing was a Lupin III Castle of Cagliostro
place where water supply bridge collapses.... orz

In terms of movie works, my personal favorite is Kiki's Delivery Service. It is a simple yet charming little story. Funny though I did not have much feelings after seeing it for the first time when I was 10 ("ok that's cute, but nothing more". But when I grow up, I have more chances to see the movie. The more I see it, the more I understand its subtlety and beauty, and the more I like it. Eventually it supercedes all other Miyazaki works and gets to the top of my movie list.

For all the works of Miyazaki, I have to say my favourite is the Nausicaa manga. It is really an incredible piece of work: a superb, well-drawn piece of art with a deep, complex, thought-provoking story. I had not been moved so much by any literature work, let alone a manga. For this reason alone I have to put it at the top of my Miyazaki list. 8]

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Laputa still remains to be the best ghibli movie statistically in my eyes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
Laputa still remains to be the best ghibli movie statistically in my eyes.

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Sorry for my ignorance. I cannot quite get what you meant by "statistically"

Did you mean the boxoffice? As far as I know Studio Ghibli did not make a really great profit out of the Japanese release in 1986 (583m yen). The first major success should be Kiki in 1989 (2.17b yen).

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*snort* Box office figures means nothing to me.

I measure a movie statistically by the movie itself; mainly plot, storyline, art, character development, characters, music, conclusion (ghibli's weakest pt), entertainment value, those kind of stuff.

And of all the ghibli films so far, Laputa rates the highest, although Spirited Away comes a very close second.

Note that "statistically" does not equal to how great i "think" the film is, although often it does give a certain measure. After all, my fav ghibli film is Mimi wo Sumaseba, but it doesnt really have that high a ranking compared to Laputa and SA.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
*snort* Box office figures means nothing to me.

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Me too. Boxoffice is never an accurate measurment. I suppose if Totoro was shown in this year, it would never run into a loss.

But to me only numerical stuff can be illustrated statistically, and I could not come up with other logical interpretations except production cost and box office. Sorry about the misunderstandings.

quote:

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I measure a movie statistically by the movie itself; mainly plot, storyline, art, character development, characters, music, conclusion (ghibli's weakest pt), entertainment value, those kind of stuff.

And of all the ghibli films so far, Laputa rates the highest, although Spirited Away comes a very close second.

Note that "statistically" does not equal to how great i "think" the film is, although often it does give a certain measure. After all, my fav ghibli film is Mimi wo Sumaseba, but it doesnt really have that high a ranking compared to Laputa and SA.

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Okay now I seem to get what you were trying to say. Do you mean "objectively" or "critically speaking"?

From an objective point of view, I would say Totoro is the best of the 80s. The story is original, but also very simple, mainly about 2 girls and some fantasy creatures called Totoro. Yet the fine storytelling power of Miyazaki turn it into a truly memorable movie. Though it is a fantasy story, everything is illustrated in a high degree of realistm: from the carefully drawn 50s country and natural environment, to the sophisticated minds of the two girls. This is Miyazaki's most successful attempt of capturing the innocence of childhood, and the uneasiness and uncertainty of the transitional stage to adulthood. In short, the true beauty of Tororo is the beauty of simplicity: a simple, yet truthful presentation of the childhood and the nature.

I am not dismissing Laputa, but I feel that the story is more stereotypical. And the characters are also simple, two-dimensional, and not as well developed (absolutely evil or absolutely good, except Dola) as those in other 80s Ghibli films. It is occupying a pretty high position in my personal list of Miyazaki works, but to me it does not deserve the top rank in a critically arranged list.

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Oh ho ho, u'd better believe about it being critical enough. I'm a pretty damn harsh critic, and no ghibli ain't no exception.

But really, for someone who thinks that boring life stories are far better than action and comedy, putting Laputa ahead of the rest is real proof, to me at least, of its greatness.

But like i said, statistically great doesn't mean i'll like it enough to love it as among my favs. Its hardly among my top 5 fav anime movies.

Anyway, a better review:

Story: Story is pretty basic, and you can even go as far as to say stereotypical. But they way the story is put forth and portrayed gives it a class of its own. It may be unoriginal, but it's still a great story nontheless.

Plot: Plotwise, it's still not that original. ou could even see some similarities with treasure island. However, digging deeper, the REAL plot isn't about searching for Laputa; its about searching for Sheeta's birthplace and it's dark secrets, why the Laputians came down to earth and never spoke of their original birthplace, and many people actually misunderstood this. It's no treasure hunt, that's merely a sidestory.

Art: This one is pretty straightforward. Ghibli art, 'nuff said.

Character development: For a 2hr show, the character's backgrounds and personalities are very clear. You can literally imagine how Sheeta and Pazu lived before, and the pirates' close bonds (as well as events between them) gives a pretty much clear view on how they were living before, right down to the portrait of young Dola in her room.

Music: Well, i can't say i'm no fan of Hisaishi, especially after listening to his magic in MH and SA. By themselves, the music doesn't seem that spectacular. But Hisaishi's magic lies in the fact that his music bonds with the scenes they come with perfectly; they were literally tailor-made.

Entertainment value: Now this IMO is the strongest point in Laputa. Any genre you want, they have it. Romance, action, comedy, epic battles, you name it. It's basically an all-in-one movie, and appeases to all group ages looking for everything under the sun.

So that's it. Mind that this review is still pretty much based on how i view the movie, so of course it can never be totally accurate.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roarkiller
I'm a pretty damn harsh critic.

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Oh well you should definitely submit some reviews to the site. For your information, the site is still waiting for the reviews of Laputa, as well as many other Ghibli films.

Okay, back to our discussion on Laputa. I think I can also make my points a bit more elaborated. Technically aspects are omitted as they are up to the high Ghibli standard, but not the greatest of the age. So all I am going to focus on is the story, the characters, and the plot

The film is the most straightforward among all the choices available. Both the plot and the characters are pretty stereotypical. These two are the major weaknesses of Laputa.

Undoubtedly the story is entertaining. But to determine if a movie is the best, one should look for more than that. The story is largely unoriginal, whether one regards it as a hunt of treasure, a hunt of secret, or whatever. In essence, it is another story about a young lad and her innocent girl-friend trying to escape from the evildoers. Even Kiki, the technically most unoriginal of all, has a greater "taste of Ghibli".

For the characters, good character development is far more than letting the audience to know about the general information like family background. It is the development of personalities. The charms of Ghibli is the complex, realistic, and three-dimensional personalities that make you feel that the characters must be existing as real persons. Laputa is not the worst in this area in the anime industry, but has definitely failed miserably when compared with other Ghibli works.

Muska is the greatest failure. He just seems to be a born-to-be devil. With no reason at all, he cannot stop for even one second of dreaming of taking over the world. I have to say all other Ghibli villains, like Kushana, are far better than him. One of the essences of the Miyazaki movies is that there is no absolute evilness, let alone an absolute evildoer. In the Miyazaki movies, an act may sound evil to one side, but is in fact made from the good will of the other. It is such a complexity that contributes to the high degree of realism in the Ghibli films. But what Laputa gives us is a monster that is disconnected from the personnels of the real world. There are too many great devils in all kinds of movies, and we do not need another one.

While Muska does not have any of the interesting sides of the Ghibli antagonists, Pazu and Sheeta do not have the charms of the Ghibli protagonists either. They have the potential to be more fully well-developed. But they turn out to be rather two-dimensional. Some people say that the personalities of the two can be concluded in five words: innocent, brave, and nothing more. Due to the lack of depth in their personalities, viewers do not care about them as much as they do when compared with Kiki, Mei or Satsuki, which are those who can really touch the deepest parts of our minds. As a result, Pazu and Sheeta are much less memorable. Just like the case of Muska, their cardboard-style personalities draws down the movie's degree of realism.

The only exception is Dola, with the Ghibli personality strengths. She is an interesting character, outwardly arrogant and greedy, but cares about the others deep inside her heart. She is also a confident, courageous and determined person. Miyazaki has said that her personality is based on that of her own mother. Probably that is why Dola stands out as the most lifelike, and the most unforgettable character of all in Laputa.

Bonus should be granted for the effort to include romance and comedy in the action-based plot. But the former is far from sufficiently developed, while the latter is funny but not especially impressive. Even so, there are touches of epic themes and the subtleties worth extra appreciation.

Overall, Laputa is a good film, but is certainly not the best, even when only compared with the other 80s Ghibli works.


It turns out that I am even harsher than the others when criticizing one of my old favourites...

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In my opinion Grave of the Fireflies is the definate 80-90's favorite Ghibli-film. The characters in GotF are one of the most sincere ones I've ever seen in any film. That's mostly because of the small details, regarding how Seita and Setsuko behave, and another reference point is the extremely realistic dialogue. When these already strong elements are combined into a fluently advancing story, every scene counts as a one whole theme in the movie.

The contrast of sadness and warmness is something extraordinary, and in GotF they support one another in a very powerful way. The ending makes you feel like you'd be in your own funeral. It closes the circle and you will see the beginning of the movie very differently.

While Miyazaki may have more balanced film career as an elite director/writer, Takahata has made one truly remarkable classic.

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I agree.....
Gotf is a true masterpeice!....not to mention the best anti war film ever made.

On the poll...I cant single one out except the weakest being Laputa...but then again I find that film to be very romantic...plus it was the first I saw.

All the other films are unique and are as brilliant as each other.
Kiki especially as I get a connection with the comments on independance & the occasional artist block issues (which the scene of Kiki losing her powers breifly was more or less about...the scene with her artist friend talking about it is spot on) ^^

Canal story cant be counted for me tho because its quite frankly...a dull documentary.^^

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Post last edited by Hakumaku on 02.20.2005, 06:43 PM.

Nausicaa.

I saw it when I was about 8 or 9 on HBO.

Now this was the edited US version called Warriors of the Wind.

I loved it.

Bought the VHS.

Later when I was about 13 and got into Anime I learned that it was edited and wanted to see the uncut version.

A couple years later at an anime screening I finally saw it subbed and uncut.

Loved it more.

Picked up the DVD last week. Finally I can own it uncut and subbed and my money went to Ghibli in some form to make more great films.

Grave of the Fireflies

... it was the movie that touched me the most, also I could not decide between this movie and Howl's moving castle and Mononoke Hime and Spirited away.
I just love the charakters because they are so realistic natural and complex. I love those Ghibli animations mostly much more than other kind of movies. There are no real baddies and no real goodies but just charakters which one just likes or don't likes that much - although I can't remember one I don't like. The moves of the charakters are so perfect and the things they say just perfectly form a person.
... bla bla sorry, but I could watch those movies all the time and always hope for new ones. I watched several of the more than once but although I would say Grave of the Fireflies is one of those that impressed me most, I think I couldn't watch it as often... maybe once again to listen more carefully to the dialogues...

peace and love

It seems unfair to compare the work of Takahata-San and Miyazaki-San since they are so different.
For me, Grave of the Fireflies, Pom Poko and Only Yesterday are three of the most accomplished films ever made. If these three animations are in turn the saddest, the funniest and the most reflective experiences you could have in the cinema, then why choose a Miyazaki animation in preference?
But Miyazaki is less conventional by putting more spontaneity into his films. Like the novels of Haruki Murakami, I get the sense the writer does not always know where the story will go. To do this, and to be true to a theme throughout is a rare achievement. So after all, I may choose a Miyazaki film as the best, particularly when it is as flawless as Tonari No Totoro.

Post last edited by Barnardo on 03.23.2005, 07:02 AM.

“My neighbor Totoro”! Such a nice, cute, charming movie! After watching it you cannot stop smiling for a long time. I think it’ll always be number one, because if you don’t know Totoro, you’d never know what Ghibli is. Kiki’s also something gorgeous, you really need to watch this movie when you grow up enough

Apart from the voting I’d say that there are fantastic works of the other directors working with studio Ghibli. I was very impressed with the “The whisper of the heart”.
When I saw it for the first time, I felt like I’ve just seen a movie about myself! (I do always take bags in the supermarket even when I buy milk, too ) A strong, beautiful movie about our whole life, I can watch it billions of times and always be surprised how nice it is.

I also found “Can you hear the ocean” interesting, though I read that it wasn’t successful when they released it.

Anyway, every movie is great, that’s why Ghibli will always be no. 1 for me.

Takahata's movies are more mature, and I doubt even some adults can even begin to fully appreciate his films. Hence they always put Miyazaki's movies on a higher level. In reality, GOTF, which IMO is Takahata's most accomplished work in his time in ghibli, beats quite a number of other ghibli films, including Miyazaki's.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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I was wondering if anyone could translate all of Ghibli's films boxoffice earnings in Yen to American or Canadian dollars. I know that boxoffice isn't very important but ive just been wondering how Ghibli films have done in the past. Any website I go to to check this is either in Japanese or features only Yen. So thank you!

quote:

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Originally posted by biker_brat
I was wondering if anyone could translate all of Ghibli's films boxoffice earnings in Yen to American or Canadian dollars. I know that boxoffice isn't very important but ive just been wondering how Ghibli films have done in the past. Any website I go to to check this is either in Japanese or features only Yen. So thank you!

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quote:

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Originally posted by biker_brat
I was wondering if anyone could translate all of Ghibli's films boxoffice earnings in Yen to American or Canadian dollars. I know that boxoffice isn't very important but ive just been wondering how Ghibli films have done in the past. Any website I go to to check this is either in Japanese or features only Yen. So thank you!

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Post last edited by Azhur on 04.06.2005, 07:36 AM.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiji
Not only the current exchange rate between the two currencies, but also the exchange rate of every single year need to be considered. Moreover, the price levels in the two countries must have fluctuated a lot. They are essential in discounting the inflation/deflation effects, but gathering such information would be quite hard.

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hereafter, the amount of money will only have to converted into the number of Rice ball.
<it might be a hamburger in such a case. if so, it is all over the world.

in Japan
Mononoke 19,300,000,000yen=128,000,000 "Onigiri"