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sweeteepye
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 02.17.08
Location:
Posts: 7 |
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 02.17.2008, 10:13 PM |
  
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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Yeah, the subs too aren't perfect. They often alter things to make them more understandable - ie, in Kiki, sometimes the subtitles include peoples' names in sentences even though the speakers never said their names in that sentence. I think it's because they're meant to carry the meaning, rather than a direct translation, which might be hard to understand just because the Japanese have a different usage for words, tend to address people less directly, etc.
But they can be a good way to build up your vocabulary nonetheless 
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Post last edited by Mush on 02.18.2008, 04:27 AM.
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| 02.18.2008, 04:27 AM |
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Valkricproxy
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 02.18.08
Location:
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yeah, i just recently got addicted to it too!!
i knew about it last year, when my friend forced me to watch the whole length of "Howl's Moving Castle" and I enjoyed it.
i've always wanted to learn japanese, but never got round to it because the language centres which offers this language charges expensive and i cannot bear the cost unless i work to pay for it.. i guess when there's a will, there's a way. =D
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| 02.18.2008, 09:56 AM |
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sweeteepye
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 02.17.08
Location:
Posts: 7 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Valkricproxy
yeah, i just recently got addicted to it too!!
i knew about it last year, when my friend forced me to watch the whole length of "Howl's Moving Castle" and I enjoyed it.
i've always wanted to learn japanese, but never got round to it because the language centres which offers this language charges expensive and i cannot bear the cost unless i work to pay for it.. i guess when there's a will, there's a way. =D
Howl's moving castle is the first one I saw. Just saw Kiki's Delivery Service and Nausicaa yesterday. Like the latter most out of all I've seen, in terms of storyline, which is actually quite convoluted.
I wrote a post about Howl's Moving castle under that topic in this forum. I bought the book and was surprised the animation and book were two different stories.
I think Japanese is too difficult for me! ;p
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| 02.18.2008, 11:19 AM |
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sweeteepye
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 02.17.08
Location:
Posts: 7 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mushka
Yeah, the subs too aren't perfect. They often alter things to make them more understandable - ie, in Kiki, sometimes the subtitles include peoples' names in sentences even though the speakers never said their names in that sentence. I think it's because they're meant to carry the meaning, rather than a direct translation, which might be hard to understand just because the Japanese have a different usage for words, tend to address people less directly, etc.
But they can be a good way to build up your vocabulary nonetheless
It was worse than that. I only started the subs at the part where the lady takes Kiki to the countryside and they have a talk just before sleeping. Remember during that scene the dubbed words and the subs were saying two different things. It sort of changed the feeling of the show depending on which I was following.
Wonder why Kiki lost her powers, was it because of self doubt?
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| 02.18.2008, 11:20 AM |
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sweeteepye
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 02.17.08
Location:
Posts: 7 |
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talking about kiki's I realised it's a book too and there's an English translation. That's my next aim! 
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| 02.18.2008, 11:21 AM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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Well, the dubs aren't really accurate at all to the original Japanese, whereas the subs (I think) are pretty accurate, especially when it matters. I'm sure Roarkiller knows more about this stuff than me though. But yeah, they would be very different, and give the movie a different feel. Also, the original Japanese voices can give the movie a different feel; sometimes the characters sound quite different, and their personality changes as a result of the way they talk.
I don't think she lost her powers for any specific reason. I mean, it might be that all witches are supposed to lose their powers as a test, but I think that the girl in the woods' theory was that she was sort of like an artist, and just forgot for a while how to paint. With many talents, they can come so naturally to you for so long, and then you'll wake up one day and you won't have a clue how to do it. That kind of thing has happened to me before, and it can be very worrying. I thought Kiki's captured the experience perfectly
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| 02.18.2008, 11:53 AM |
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Theowne
Baron
Registration Date: 02.11.07
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1290 |
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Sometimes the best solution is to get a reasonable understanding of Japan and Japanese language, combined with subtitles. I am nowhere near being fluent in Japanese but even what knowledge I have gained thus far has been very helpful in watching and understanding Japanese media. There are things which you can't just put on an English subtitle and accurate portray the meaning, as in any language.
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| 02.18.2008, 01:38 PM |
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dballred
Ohmu
Registration Date: 04.24.06
Location: Oklahoma City - Seattle - Tokyo
Posts: 406 |
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quote:
Originally posted by sweeteepye
Recently became a bit obsessed with Studio Ghibli films after friends introduced me to them after mentioning they went to the museum in Tokyo.
After watching the films, I tried to discuss them with my friends but realised I'm just a bit more into discussing them than they were.  So am happy I stumbled onto this forum but please forgive if my messages are really "beginner's level".
Just borrowed Kiki's Delivery Service dubbed in English and watched it halfway before turning on the subtitles as I've always found text helpful. I expected some differences but was quite surprised when the subs were really very different from what they were saying, sometimes a different topic altogether! I was getting too confused trying to view the flim with both, and the meaning of the particular exchange I was viewing at that moment would actually be different depending on which translation I was depending on. Strange I thought! And also wondered if I might not want to go through the whole film again with Japanese audio and subs instead to see if I got a different feel for it. Anyway, it has made me think about learning Japanese, which is something I've never ever thought about! ;p
If you want to learn Japanese, then get started. I don't know what your age is, but one's ability to learn a new language starts on the downhill side after about age seven. The earlier you start, the better you will ever become at it.
As the topic of Kiki was brought up, it is the strongest reason among Ghibli films to learn the language. The English dub doesn't match the original Japanese very well--and the English subtitles wander far off of the Japanese dialog in several places. When Kiki and the herring pie lady have their initial meeting, it was like seeing a completely different dialog.
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| 02.24.2008, 11:11 PM |
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sweeteepye
Susuwatari
Registration Date: 02.17.08
Location:
Posts: 7 |
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quote:
Originally posted by dballred
quote:
Originally posted by sweeteepye
Recently became a bit obsessed with Studio Ghibli films after friends introduced me to them after mentioning they went to the museum in Tokyo.
After watching the films, I tried to discuss them with my friends but realised I'm just a bit more into discussing them than they were. So am happy I stumbled onto this forum but please forgive if my messages are really "beginner's level".
Just borrowed Kiki's Delivery Service dubbed in English and watched it halfway before turning on the subtitles as I've always found text helpful. I expected some differences but was quite surprised when the subs were really very different from what they were saying, sometimes a different topic altogether! I was getting too confused trying to view the flim with both, and the meaning of the particular exchange I was viewing at that moment would actually be different depending on which translation I was depending on. Strange I thought! And also wondered if I might not want to go through the whole film again with Japanese audio and subs instead to see if I got a different feel for it. Anyway, it has made me think about learning Japanese, which is something I've never ever thought about! ;p
If you want to learn Japanese, then get started. I don't know what your age is, but one's ability to learn a new language starts on the downhill side after about age seven. The earlier you start, the better you will ever become at it.
As the topic of Kiki was brought up, it is the strongest reason among Ghibli films to learn the language. The English dub doesn't match the original Japanese very well--and the English subtitles wander far off of the Japanese dialog in several places. When Kiki and the herring pie lady have their initial meeting, it was like seeing a completely different dialog.
Well, how right you are. I think I'm a bit too old actually. ;p as I'm also generally not good with languages. I think I can pick up a few words here or there, and interest in these animations will help to encourage me along, but doubtless I will never master Japanese.
Now reading Nausicaa and it's really irritating I can't find vol. 2 or 4!
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| 02.25.2008, 11:29 PM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.30.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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Don't let age discourage you. My friend's mom started learning Japanese in her '30s, got a master's degree in the language and went to live in Japan for a few years and worked in media broadcasting there. Her skill is truly amazing.
Starting early will definitely make it easier, but anything is possible. Don't ever let hope escape from your sights!
Post last edited by Mush on 02.26.2008, 01:12 AM.
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| 02.26.2008, 01:11 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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Our ability to learn, I feel, never degenerates. In my own non-professional opinion, it has more to do with interest rather than ability. One's ineterest in a subject very greatly influences our ability to master that particular subject.
Back to topic...
Subtitles, I find, can never truly replace actual dialogue, simply because translations between any two languages, no matter how closely related, can NEVER be 100% accurate. In regard to Ghibli subs, similarly, you can expect it to match the actual dialogue with perfect accuracy. Some loss of meaning must be tolerated. The problem is how much of a loss the audience is willing to accept (anime otakus generally have a VERY low acceptance for this).
Dubs are a different form altogether. Unfortunately, due to the need to conform to mouth movements as well as cultural differences between audiences, the topic often varies from the original.
Regardless though, not being able to master Japanese is hardly a sign of failure. This may come as shocking, but English people do not rank the highest in the world for their own language, and this actually applies to other languages as well in general.
In short, the Japanese themselves can't master their own language, let alone expect a non-japanese to be able to.
So don't worry, it doesn't matter. And having an interest always helps. If it helps, I started learning Japanese because of anime too (Spirited Away as the catalyst), and have been doing so for 7 years now, yet I'm still far from being fluent.
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I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 02.26.2008, 10:38 AM |
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Kanta
Warawara
Registration Date: 05.26.06
Location: i was born in Totoro town.
Posts: 150 |
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quote:
Originally posted by　Roarkiller
So don't worry, it doesn't matter. And having an interest always helps. If it helps, I started learning Japanese because of anime too (Spirited Away as the catalyst), and have been doing so for 7 years now, yet I'm still far from being fluent.
I think Roarkiller writes Japanese very well. Roar's Japanese is much better than my English, at least. I believe most of those here are young enough to start learning new languages, compared to me. 
Talikng about subtitles, it's general knowledge that subtitles often lose actual dialogue. Certain reasons why Japanese start leaning English are they want to watch Hollywood movies without subtitles. They want to laugh at the same points with English speakers. Maybe half of dialogues are lost in Japanese sub. In fact, I can't get most of dialogues of Hollywood movies. 
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| 03.05.2008, 11:23 AM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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It is hard to watch something and accept the dialog as being accurate, that makes watching something in your own tongue makes watching things easier. I find that i can agree to the topic and roarkillers point that watching something where you dont know whats being said makes you want to learn them. Being moderately addicted to anime makes me want to learn japanese as well.
Just by watching, you pick up small pharses, like thank you, i'm sorry etc, but it really doesnt do much else. It is interesting that it is a vice versa for japanese people who want to watch Hollywood films in their entirety and while some North Americans want to watch anime in its entirety.
I need to do some hunting around for some internet language starters.
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The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 03.05.2008, 11:33 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.03.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Kanta
I think Roarkiller writes Japanese very well. Roar's Japanese is much better than my English, at least.
Sou omowanai desu kedo, doumo
@Sanfan: I just have one simple rule: watch the show in whatever language it was made on. For that reason alone I strive to understand whatever language is spoken.
FYI I plan on taking mandarin after Japanese, and if possible, korean, italian and french.
__________________
I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
Roarkiller.net
Isakaya High RPG Site
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 03.05.2008, 12:05 PM |
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Miyrru
Graphic Designer
Registration Date: 08.16.06
Location: Freezing cold Northern Ontario
Posts: 7178 |
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I tend to watch anime in subs anyways, dubs are when I am overly lazy.
I'd stay away from french. Gawd I detest that language. Ive had tried to learn it for 9 years with no progress. Young Canadian children outside of Quebec that care about that language is in single digits. Probably because the way it was taught. I believe out of those 9 years of attempted French learning we went through 13 Teachers. More than one quit/retired mid year. Hmm...
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Click for Gallery^^
The truth had to be seen. Anything else was a story, entertaining but more embroidered fib then crude, shapeless fact. ~Dave Eggers
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| 03.05.2008, 12:10 PM |
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