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hopexx5
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.17.11
Location: UK
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 07.07.2011, 11:51 AM |
  
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
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There needs to be more of them. *-*
I've latelt come across a few straight, quite feminine men. There's also one who has a love affair with flowers and wants to wear a white dress someday but will only before the right before. <.<;; And some with obsessions over girls' socks who buy them and wear them. Most like my stuffed animals.
I treat it as completely normal. I have no issue with feminine men as long as not everyone excuses them of being gay. Heck, sometimes I do but not intentionally. More like I love to tease.
EDIT: And I'd rather date a guy with tight fitting clothing than one who wears their clothes two sizes too big and socks with their sandals.
Post last edited by foreignfilmfreak on 07.07.2011, 02:41 PM.
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| 07.07.2011, 02:39 PM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.29.07
Location: South of Canada
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Oooh! Great topic! Forgive me if I do rant on about it.
quote:
Originally posted by foreignfilmfreak
socks with their sandals.
I've got nothing against men who wear socks with their sandals, as long as they put on clean socks when they come inside. Easier than putting on clean feet 
Back on topic, I agree with FFF - needs to be more of them! I also think they're very brave because they risk harrassment by acting in a way that isn't traditionally 'masculine'. Although I'm the kind of person who on principle supports tearing down basically every gender barrier in society.
Basically I don't have any problem with boys who like:
- Flowers
- The colour pink
- Playing with dolls
- Caring for children
- Doing housework
- Cooking
- Painting their nails
- Wearing long hair
- Styling hair
- Dressing up stylishly in men's clothes
- Dressing up stylishly in women's clothes (but for their own safety I'd think they should be careful going out in certain neighbourhoods...)
Some people might think that such things are 'unnatural'. It's so easy to think that gender behaviours and even fashions are hard-wired and written in stone. I prefer to view it in the context of someone in the future looking back at our modern culture. When I think in that way, the intense fixation that people have on 'what is permitted and what is not' becomes laughably silly.
Unnatural is exactly what they said in the past to women who wanted to wear pants. And high heels were originally made for men anyway.
So basically, people should just step back and take it easy, and let others act the way they want. 
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Post last edited by Mush on 07.07.2011, 03:54 PM.
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| 07.07.2011, 03:53 PM |
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Yay! Kiki
Baron
Registration Date: 04.06.08
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3851 |
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Men can be feminine if they want. Honestly, I don't care what anyone does at all as long as it makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else. People can be what they want to be and if you're a guy and you want to be feminine, that's cool, if you're a guy and you want to be masculine, that's cool, if you're a woman and you want to be feminine, that's cool, and if you're a woman and want to be masculine, that's cool too. I really don't understand why people get worked up about other people's habits and identities and ways of life when they aren't affected at all by them.
People are what they are and whatever that is, it's fine.
But I agree with Mushka--this is a great topic idea. XD
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| 07.07.2011, 05:57 PM |
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arren18
Administrator
Registration Date: 08.15.06
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 10729 |
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I could've written a long post, but Mushka has already written it.
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| 07.07.2011, 11:25 PM |
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hopexx5
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.17.11
Location: UK
Posts: 698 |
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Wow i didn't expect so many positive replies, thanks everyone. 
As for my views on it, i am totally OK with it, in fact i am probably one of them.
mushka@ Yes i agree that the gender barriers society has currently are rather narrow minded, they need to be rethought.
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| 07.08.2011, 07:30 AM |
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Kazegami
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 08.19.07
Location: a world of pure imagination
Posts: 7030 |
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I love feminine guys. Painted nails, makeup, styled hair, nice clothes, love those things on a guy. And what I hate are gender stereotypes.
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| 07.21.2011, 10:44 PM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.16.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12879 |
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I can only go by the norms from my own generation. I like wearing a pink shirt with grey slacks. IMO, on me it looks good. Yellows for me are not good, yuck! I like BRIGHT tie-dyed shirts for casual wear. I used to wear my hair relatively long, shoulder length, and when I finally give up on the security work altogether, I will probably do so again. Shoulder length, anyway. I might think different what with the lesser amount on the top, lol. We'll see.  My youngest son had very long hair when he was around 8-10 yrs old and was made fun of at church. Part of the reason that I no longer attend.
Basically, as has been said, I have no problem with anyone being what they want to be or dressing however they so desire. That is their choice and, as has been said, they should have the sense to NOT go where they may be preyed upon by idiots.
my thoughts, for what they are worth.
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| 07.23.2011, 06:26 PM |
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Calforsale
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.19.10
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Well i also do not like gender stereotypes, and i do not see much differences between men and women at all other than our bodies and a few other biological differences.
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| 07.25.2011, 05:48 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.02.03
Location: Home, resting...
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I'll keep it short (not easy typing on a phone).
I'm cool with feminity. A few of my friends are.
I'm not cool with transgender. You are who you are born as, there's no such thing as god making a mistake.
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I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
Roarkiller.net
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quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 07.26.2011, 10:32 PM |
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Orphic Okapi
Baron
Registration Date: 04.08.07
Location: Saskatchewan
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What about intersex people? Not suggesting God made a mistake with them or anything, but what are people without a clear gender supposed to do? Pick one and stick with it?
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Post last edited by Orphic Okapi on 07.27.2011, 05:42 AM.
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| 07.27.2011, 05:38 AM |
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Nausicaa_Cat
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Registration Date: 10.02.06
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I completely echo what Mushka says on the subject 
As far as transgender goes, I think people have the choice to be whatever they wish to be. Some of these people spend years of their lives feeling isolated, uncomfortable and resentful of their own bodies and generally unhappy with their lives - if God is half what I am lead to understand he would be forgiving and accepting of whatever a person chooses to do or become. Surely happiness of soul and spirit is far more important than what parts people have where. That's just my opinion.
As for intersex, taking Orphic to mean hermaphrodites, I think a decision is generally taken very early on to remove the corresponding equipment of one of the gender than encourage hormone therapy and so on for the chosen gender. So I suppose the parents would make the decision? I know that generally surgery is applied in early infancy. Some argue that it should be left until the child can make a decision themselves. I'm not 100% how it works, I think there is always the danger of people not feeling entirely comfortable with the gender they end up with. I'm not sure though,
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| 07.27.2011, 06:07 AM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.29.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
I'm not cool with transgender. You are who you are born as, there's no such thing as god making a mistake.
Okay, but even taking your premise for granted (that God makes no mistakes), this is an argument from which no such conclusions can be drawn. The very same line of reasoning could be used to argue that God intended transgendered people to be transgendered. If I do assume that God makes no mistakes, then either transgendered people don't exist, or they are not a mistake. And they clearly do exist.
Ultimately we really have to create our own opinions, and decide for ourselves whether to be kind or cold to others. And the world is really cold enough already, isn't it?
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Post last edited by Mush on 07.27.2011, 03:46 PM.
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| 07.27.2011, 03:46 PM |
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husky51
The Old Guy
Registration Date: 03.16.08
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12879 |
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| 07.27.2011, 08:29 PM |
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Farren
Baron
Registration Date: 07.18.07
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 2165 |
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wow this has turned quite in depth...
"god makes no mistakes"
i don't agree at all with this...
People are born all around the world with unfortunately, severe disabilities and deformities.
How can that be justified by a god???
i agree completely with mushka on this
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Post last edited by Farren on 07.27.2011, 11:27 PM.
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| 07.27.2011, 11:27 PM |
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foreignfilmfreak
Miyazaki's Best Friend
Registration Date: 10.02.06
Location: Japan
Posts: 7589 |
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Weird. I had a friend who was intersex. She was raised a boy and completely hated her life, much because it just wasn't for her. And not many guys would accept her the way she was. She paid a ridiculous lot to become a woman, and she's never been happier. D: I don't really understand the whole process. But she has cancer and only wanted to be able to live her remaining life as a woman.
There seems to be quite a bit of pressure on transgender people. I feel sorry for them. I have no problem with it. It's different than gettinng a boob job. It means a lot to them to do it. And they're usually much happier. Although some commit suicide from being unaccepted. There was a guy I knew who started liking this girl, but she wouldn't talk to him because she was afraid to tell him she used to be a man. He was shocked, and he felt completely hateful of himself for just letting her go, because of that reason, but he didn't know what to do.
Now, about males acting feminine.. I've noticed my soon to be boyfriend is really confused by a few things in western culture. One being how guys dress here and talk. He thinks it's strange but he doesn't complain about it, like most guys do here about feminine guys. He was raised by women. He also likes Korean boy bands, but everyone here would likely call him gay for that, while in his country, it was completely normal.
I can't really grasp the reason anymore why people consider music videos from Korea or Japan as gay. Really. I can't. It's no longer something weird to me to see a man wearing eyeliner or dressing nicely, even in flamboyant colours. As for musicians, I've long accepted it. So when I read comments by ignorant viewers, I don't understand them at all. It hit me today that I can't tell anymore. There was a video review by someone I really admire explaining how these videos are viewed in the west, and why it's difficult for musicians (mainly male) from there have issues debuting here, simply because of their image. Sure, the music could be good, but people are obsessed with the image. It's weird. I can't even explain this properly because I really don't understand it. Maybe it's because, without those who are ignorant getting mixed in, fans of these idols are very evident. They don't really choose to insult. So when insults come, it's something foreign to them a bit, and they all tackle on the issue instead of ignoring. I don't know. I just think it's weird how people don't accept it here.
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| 07.28.2011, 03:45 AM |
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hopexx5
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.17.11
Location: UK
Posts: 698 |
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What makes it even more confusing is some clothes etc considered to be female now, was intended for men back then. sooo why cant men/boys wear them without getting a sneering group of immature guys laughing at them, Its hardly fair is it what makes it so different?
This Halloween i am trying to break the ice a little bit by giving up on the normal vampire or wizard role and going as a witch... but not one of those ugly ones in Disney films.
Or though that does not mean im going to go with a red bow on my head, or though that would proudly be cool.
I guess at the end of the day this weird obsession with difference can be traced to the media over doing it, and the fact we are becoming more gullible.
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| 07.28.2011, 03:57 AM |
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Calforsale
Totoro
Registration Date: 01.19.10
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 866 |
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quote:
Originally posted by Roarkiller
I'm not cool with transgender. You are who you are born as, there's no such thing as god making a mistake.
So you're saying 'God' would rather someone live in pain, having to live in a body which isn't like they are - than them becoming a transgender so they can be happy and who they believe they are?
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| 07.28.2011, 04:37 AM |
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Roarkiller
Your Daddy-O
Registration Date: 06.02.03
Location: Home, resting...
Posts: 6077 |
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"God" is a term for the omnipotent. If he makes mistakes, he wouldn't be called god, would he? That's just plain illogical.
On the question of why God would force someone to live in unhappiness, IMO that just another tab to the long list of the "Why Life Sucks" list, and to me it's just something you need to learn to deal with. It's like asking God why he let good people die young and the bad people live old.
Now being unhappy with your sex... when compared to being born with physical or mental impairment, or being treated like dirt your whole life, lacking even the basic necessities to survive day by day, being tortured in war, sold to a prostitution ring before you're even ten, framed for rape or murder while the guilty is never caught...
Now you look at my long list, and you tell me what the difference is. Because I sure don't see any. Misfortunes befall every man, and just because it befalls you doesn't give you the right to blame it on God.
I'll give you a simple example. A man born poor robs a bank. When people ask him why he does it, he blames god for him being born into a poor family. Does that sound right to you?
Looking at my post, you'll be forgiven for thinking that I'm some uptight religious preacher of some sort, because it does look a lot like it. But sorry, but this isn't religion I'm discussing, it's logical philosophy. You can't compare your misfortunes with other people. Somewhere in the world there will always be someone more unfortunate that you, and saying that you are just unlucky and god is to blame is just a selfish delusional thought.
Don't get me wrong though, if you want to be gay or lesbian or transgender, go for it; it's your life, your decision. I'm just saying that I, personally, don't approve of it, and blaming other people (or God) for who you are or what happens to you is just downright pathetic.
Besides, sex is just a way for a species to reproduce. Man and man, woman and woman, not very productive to the species.
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I am me.
I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.
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Isakaya High RPG Site
quote:
Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.
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| 07.28.2011, 07:05 AM |
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Mush
Baron
Registration Date: 07.29.07
Location: South of Canada
Posts: 1810 |
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quote:
Me, I guess I'm an easy-going, live and let live kind of person.
Husky, you're awesome. Did you know that?
FFF - yeah, they do have it hard don't they?
Roarkiller - Who says they're blaming God for who they are? I'm sure that many of them don't even believe in God, let alone blame him for their situation.
Your argument is still irrational, and I'd like to help you see that. It's not irrational because you're invoking God. It's irrational because you're drawing conclusions that aren't supported by your premise.
Okay, God makes no mistakes by definition. I accept that definition for the purposes of argument. But you have to somehow use this fact to explain your opposition to transgendered people, and you haven't done that.
What you have done is shown that bad things happen to good people, and sometimes very bad things happen to very good people. Life is hard, and sometimes you have no choice but to deal with hardships. Sometimes life is unfair and you can't blame God as an excuse. That's fine, and I can agree with you there. Now, you try to use it to argue that people should be happy with whatever chromosomes the hands of fate have dealt them. It isn't logical.
You suggest that other people get much worse fortunes, and that is certainly true. And some of them blame God for their situation, but you say, that doesn't excuse bad behaviour. I agree.
But people who don't like their situation have the option to improve their circumstances. God won't deal a new set of cards because you don't like what you get, but you can make the best with what you've been dealt. This doesn't mean that God made a mistake when dealing the cards. This is the choice that transgendered people have, and at no point in your argument did you explain why it is wrong for them to make that choice.
Poor people can rob banks, and that is wrong, because stealing is wrong. But if they are lucky, and dedicated, and have support from other people, then they can also work their way into wealth without hurting anybody.
Transgendered people are those who have gone past the point of being dissatisfied with their misfortune. They aren't blaming God anymore. Undoubtedly, there are many more people who aren't happy with being born as male or female, but who never had the will, courage, or the means to change their sex. Transgendered people aren't robbing banks, they're just having surgery. Nobody gets hurt, and nobody is wronged here.
God hasn't voiced any objections. So where does your opposition really originate from?
As for homosexual couplings not being very productive for the species - well, almost nothing we do is very productive for the species. But I'm sure the species will be just fine.
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Post last edited by Mush on 07.28.2011, 08:06 AM.
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| 07.28.2011, 08:05 AM |
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