(OK, I'm at work, I'm bored, humor me. And if anyone else already posted these observations, than they get the credit, good job, and I should pay more attention)

I watched Spirited Away again last night- it had been a few months since I watched it last. And as always, I caught a new detail (it never fails) while watching it this time- when Chihiro steps off the train with No-Face and is walking towards the home of Zeniba, I noticed the moon glowing behind her. It was in between the waxing-gibbous and full moon phases. This same moon phase is seen multiple times during the Chihiro-Haku flight sequence over Swamp Bottom. Suddenly, I realized that earlier in the film, the 'first' night Chihiro gets lost in the Spirit World, I thought there was another moon. I went back to chapter three to find it again, and sure enough, for a couple seconds while the 'camera' pans over the bridge and closes in to where Chihiro begins her descent down the wooden stairs to Kamaji's boiler room, there is another moon- but this one is just in between the waxing-crescent and new-moon phases.

(I'm doing this in my head, I'm a History major, so if my math is off, apologies)
Now, there are eight phases of the moon. Approximating around 30 days for a full cycle to occur, that gives around 4 days per cycle. Approximating again that Chihiro entered the Spirit World at the new-moon phase, then left it at the full-moon phase, means that at the very least, three phases of the moon came and went, with about half of two more phases (since the moon was not quite in the new-moon and full-moon phases). At four days per phase, that totals to at least 12 days, plus perhaps one or two more full days considering that the moon was not quite full and new, making it around 14 days (give or take a day). It means that Chihiro at the very least spent about 2 weeks in the Spirit World.

Another far simpler observation is that, since one full moon phase is about 30 days, then for the moon to go from the new-moon phase to the full-moon phase takes about fifteen days, which is almost what takes place in Spirited Away.

Yay. =p

To see the moon phases-
(American DVD version of SA)
Chapter 3- "Finding Work at the Bathhouse"
Chapter 13- "A Visit with Zeniba"
Chapter 14- "Finding the way Home"

There are some screenshots of the movie that I took some time ago. Here are a few that are relevant. I do not have the screenshot of the earlier one (chap 3), though. Is the dark part of the moon on the left or on the right at that time?

http://tinypic.com/2drzwx (01:07:14) (Chihiro eating medicine ball)
http://tinypic.com/2ds03m (01:46:15) (Chihiro on the train)
http://tinypic.com/2ds078 (01:52:52) (Chihiro on Haku)

Anyway for a normal moon cycle in the northern hemisphere, it starts with a new moon, then a waxing crescent on the right, which continues to grow until full. Darkness then appears on the right, which gradually moves leftwards and eats up the whole moon.

The first screenshot of the movie has a full moon, while the later two have the first quaters. So between the night of the river god and the night of the visit to Zeniba's house, over three weeks, or almost a month has passed. But there is an undetermined time lag between the night of Chihiro's arrival and the night of the river god. In any case, the time frame of Chihiro's spirited away should be much longer than two weeks.

But well, who knows where Yuya is? Let alone which hemisphere it is located on.

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Gosh, I didn't even notice the moon in the 'Chihiro nibbles the medicine ball' scene.

I'm pretty certain that the moon over the bridge early in the movie is a waxing crescent. The dark portion is on the left. But I'd have to check again when I get home, I guess. (maybe I can find a screenshot now)

*edit* Ah-ha.
http://photos1.flickr.com/134648_c71e3f145c_m.jpg - crescent moon, first night

So the time from the beginning of the movie, the 'first' night- if it was a waxing crescent- to the 'second' night must have been around 2 weeks itself! And to get back to the waxing gibbous we see near the end of the film on the 'third' night must have been another month, as you said.

She spent a month and a half in the Spirit World, then- if she was in the northern hemisphere.
There's also the possibility that the moon in the Spirit World is completely wack.
Oh well. None of it is really important anyway, but it's fun to talk about.

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Originally posted by starhawk

She spent a month and a half in the Spirit World, then- if she was in the northern hemisphere.
There's also the possibility that the moon in the Spirit World is completely wack.
Oh well. None of it is really important anyway, but it's fun to talk about.

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Hehe this is quite a logical deduction.

But can the moon phases shows only the time flow of the outside world, instead of the one of Yuya?

If we forget the moon stuff and simply focus on the flow of the story, there are three nights:

1. night - Chihiro's arrival
(day - saw the piglike parents)
2. night - river god's visit
(day - saved No-face and Haku)
3. night - arrived at Zeniba's house
(day - back to Yuya and saved the parents)


And from the moon phase screenshots, there was a two week gap between the first and second night, and an approximately one month gap between the second and third night.

If we assume that the speed of time flow in Yuya is different from the outside world, it would probably mean for every one night in Yuya, the outside world would pass two weeks. But then, it would also mean that there was an extra night between night 2 and night 3 not mentioned in the movie (?). So maybe Chihiro stayed in the Yuya world for four nights, while one and a half month has passed in the outside world.

And other indications of the time flow of the outside world include the car and the entrance of Yuya. When the Chihiro family first reached Yuya, their car and the entrance was plain new. But when they left, their car was covered with dust and both the entrance and the roads are covered with weeds. Also notice that initially there was a stone statue. But when they left, all the facial features were weathered away. This would take at least a few years under normal conditions to achieve such an effect. But then how could they start up the car in that case?

When they first arrived, the entrance was still painted red, and the statue had clear, frog-like facial features.
http://tinypic.com/2hwjfr

When they left, all the paint had gone.
http://tinypic.com/2hwjlw

The dust-covered car and the featureless statue.
http://tinypic.com/2hwk9d


Well, it is getting more and more complicated...

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Wow. It sure is. but the fact that the details are there is what makes me keep wondering about it. If the animators didn't care about the details, then the details wouldn't have been there at all.

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But can the moon phases shows only the time flow of the outside world, instead of the one of Yuya?

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. . .umm me dont know if they pay that much attention to detail. . . . heh heh

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Someday I will find my Baron. . .

quote:

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Originally posted by the_baron's_girl
. . .umm me dont know if they pay that much attention to detail. . . . heh heh

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quote:

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Originally posted by the_baron's_girl
. . .umm me dont know if they pay that much attention to detail. . . . heh heh

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Who knows? I won't be interested in topics like this if this is a Disney production. But well, Spirited Away is from Ghibli, and this studio has a good reputation of paying attention to every trivial thing that 99% of the viewers would simply ignore.

As far as I know, in the Miyazaki-directed Lupin movie, the clock tower appears in different times. And every time the hands keep moving closer and closer to the top of the hour until it finally rings.

So the moon phases could be another indication of time flow, which work just like the clock tower, but in different scales. However the moon phases also have symbolic meanings in the world of literacy. Some googling can get you tonnes of related information. I am not sure if those in Spirited Away could also be explained in such a way. But well, no one really knows.

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well perhaps that because its a spirit world every night might have a fill moon (sommat to do wiv magic or sommat)

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quote:

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Originally posted by kittycatjess
well perhaps that because its a spirit world every night might have a fill moon (sommat to do wiv magic or sommat)

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Not really. There are several instance you can see from the movie different moon phases at different time. Unless what you are trying to say is that the full moon cycle completes every night instead of every 30 days. If that's the case, well we could never estimate how long has Chihiro stated in the world of Yuya.

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I must admit I've never noticed the moon phases in the movie, and it's never struck me to wonder how long Sen was actually there!
But now I do, I think that the moon in the spirit world is a completely different one to the moon in the human world. Afterall, all that water that seperates her from her home isn't there in the human world, just the spirit world. Time must pass very differently where Sen is, (neither she, nor anyone else actually ages through the film, I know the baby starts walking, but he doesn't actually look any different!), but by the state of the car and the entrance it must have been many many months! That's why I wonder what happened to the house they were meant to be moving into...surely it must have been resold or repossessed?

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But in Asian culture they belived that the moon connected the spirit world to our world. That may be the reason why the Chinese calendar follows a lunar pattern. So the moon's phases are the most accurate way of dipicting the time she spent there. Besides, 3 days wouldn't fill the car with dust, a few weeks, yes.

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The moon phase gives no concrete evidence of the timeline. For all you know, several months may have past, and the moon just jappens to look like that.

Jiji's explanation (or mine, since it's the same as mine anyway) is a better way to gauge.

Or for a better explanation why it's only 3 days and 3 nights:

Chihiro and family arrived in the evening. That much is clear since night arrived soon after they arrived.

That very night, Chihiro met with Haku, and was told to get a job from Yubaaba. This she did, and with Lin as her overseer, thus ends the first night. This is proven by the fact that Chihiro was still trembling with fear while the rest were asleep i.e. it was her first night.

Or morning, actually. Haku invited Chihiro out to return her belongings and see her parents. Relieved, she fell asleep exhausted in the boiler room.

The 2nd night, her work officially starts. This we know from Yubaaba, who literally stated that this was her first job. Before that, she was still cleaning up and preparing for the work day/night, and when assigned to the big tub, was later told that the first customers were coming soon.

However, in between this, the timeline may or may not be of the same night. For all we know, the two may have been assigned as clean-up staff for several nights before the transfer. This is the only unclear part of the timeline puzzle.

As the first task ends, we see Kaonashi in the background. Then the aogaeru came to dig up gold. This we know to be the immediate morning after Chihiro's first customer; Kaonashi couldn't have stayed at the same bath for so long without any incidents. Also, if several nights were to have passed, there would definitely not have been any gold, and aogaeru would obviously not have waited so long to dig for them.

And so that day, the Kaonashi fiasco starts. This part obviously lasted during that very day; Yubaaba is always there every night. And so it follows that Chihiro got the train tickets from Kamajii that very day too.

Following that late afternoon/evening, Chihiro and troupe got on the train and headed for Zeniiba's house. A nd a train ride can never last more than a few hours, plus CHihiro's a human and was never seen to have brought any food along, so it's safe to assume that they arrived that very night.

There's such a thing as overstaying your hospitality, and Chihiro isn't of the type, which means she never stayed at Zeniiba's house longer than a few hours. Haku later arrived to take them back to the bathhouse.

By then, it's already morning. Very early morning, to be precise, if the morning mist around the bathhouse can be taken as an event happening at real time. Chihiro then frees her parents and returns with them to her real world.

Due to the lack of shadows (or me not noticing), I can't tell the direction of the sun to compare the time when the Oginos arrived and when they departed.

And so, with that lengthy explanation, the "proof" of her stay being only 3 nights and 3 days.

Any questions?

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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The length of time they spent in Yubabaland as measured in earth time can't be determined by counting the days, because there's no reason to assume that the Spirit world and our world were even in the same universe. Roarkiller is right about the timeline. Chihiro spent three nights in the Yu-ya. It is seamless. Everyone else is right about the phases of the moon. I can add that the difference between the moon's phases is not an error in the animation. They were explicitly described in the story boards, so it was intentional on Miyazaki's part.

What we do know is that dust gathered on the car, the grass grew up, the gate was severely deteriorated, the figure in the middle of the road was worn smooth, yet the car wasn't towed away, the tires weren't flat, and the gasoline in the car was able to start the engine. As the English version included the Lasseter blasphemy about scary schools, it's strange that the dialog that we could all now hear didn't include "What the heck happened to my bouquet?"

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Originally posted by dballred
The length of time they spent in Yubabaland as measured in earth time can't be determined by counting the days, because there's no reason to assume that the Spirit world and our world were even in the same universe. Roarkiller is right about the timeline. Chihiro spent three nights in the Yu-ya. It is seamless. Everyone else is right about the phases of the moon. I can add that the difference between the moon's phases is not an error in the animation. They were explicitly described in the story boards, so it was intentional on Miyazaki's part.

What we do know is that dust gathered on the car, the grass grew up, the gate was severely deteriorated, the figure in the middle of the road was worn smooth, yet the car wasn't towed away, the tires weren't flat, and the gasoline in the car was able to start the engine. As the English version included the Lasseter blasphemy about scary schools, it's strange that the dialog that we could all now hear didn't include "What the heck happened to my bouquet?"

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-John Eusebio

When I say 3 days, I meant 3 days countable in the spirit world.

The moon phases may or may not have anything to do with the timeline, since Miyazaki DID specify what phase he wanted for all scenes.

But for the deterioration of the main entrance, though, there's a very simple explanation, and actually crops up in so many ghost stories. Simply put, the gate will appear in ruins most of the times. But at a certain time (of the day, week, year, etc), it will appear as it was a long time ago, or in this case, appear as if it was taken care of. Something like a trip back in time, you know.

On the dust, considering wind factors and such, a few days is all it should take to cover the car with a certain layer of dust. Remember, THREE windows were open at the time.

EDIT: Hey, I'm a Yamada Minna yoroshiku ne!

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I am Roarkiller.
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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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that's a really awesome observation....i never thought about the time chihiro spent in the spirit world....good work!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sunchaser
that's a really awesome observation....i never thought about the time chihiro spent in the spirit world....good work!

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Only because a bored person came up with the question, and I was bored enough to come up with such a lengthy explanation, lol

Still, until Miyazaki has any say in it, we will never know for sure. Maybe the next time someone gets a chance to interview a staff of ghibli, we can ask.

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I am who I am.
I am Roarkiller.
No one else is me.

Roarkiller.net
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quote:

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Originally posted by fenkashi
Screw your opinions, they are not relevant ^^.

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Actually, I thought that the entrance Chihiro's family went through is only open every so often, and it's appearence changes when this happens. The statue just before it might be some sort of "open/closed" sign, with both faces meaning that you can go in and out, and one face (depending on the side it appears on) could mean one way in, or one way out. The gateway itself looks nice and new when the door is open, and rundown and creepy when it's closed. It could also be a form of camoflauge against unwanted intruders.

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i never thought of the passage of time either but i thought that it's obvious the timing is different between yuya and her home...

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